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#1 Posted : 02 November 2005 17:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By John D Crosby Hi, Our legal expert has some very limited information that following the death of a patient from MRSA two doctors have been charged/prosecuted for manslaughter and that the hospital Trust involved is being prosecuted by the HSE for five offences involving Section 3 of The Health & Safety at Work etc Act. Can anyone provide some information on this or point me in the direction of some hard facts? Have tried a general search on the web but not finding anything related. I am sure that if it is true someone can help. Take care John C
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#2 Posted : 02 November 2005 17:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By David J Bristow John Briefly read the article in the paper and my interpretation of that article was that 2 junior Doctors failed to diagnose a worsening condition (toxic reaction) in a man who had had an operation on his knee. The 2 doctors were convicted of manslaughter and jailed for 18 months. As far as I am aware there was no mention to MRSA in this article. You rightly state in your posting that the hospital is to face further charges relating to breaches of health and safety. Hope this helps. Regards David B
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#3 Posted : 02 November 2005 20:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By steven bentham A hospital has been prosecuted following a blood mix up causing the death of a patient; basically a 'systems failure'. You raise an interesting point, why are there so few investigations from deaths in health care? After all 'deaths through systems failures in construction, nuclear, manufacturing, railways etc will result in investigations enforcement - but not in health care. I think its a slim line to say deaths in healthcare as part of treatment don't fall under RIDDOR for reporting therfore the HSE cannot investigate. Systems failures in healthcare should come under HASAWA and the rest? I suppose if you investigate deaths in health care as systems failures it would mess up the stats.
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#4 Posted : 02 November 2005 23:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp John Unless I have misunderstood your thread you are asking for advice regarding Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (HSWA), which deals with 'duties to persons other than employees.' In other words - members of the public. In this respect hospital patients would be considered as other persons under Section 3 of HSWA. When prosecuting the HSE normally charge as per HSWA because it is a princpal Act, although they could bring a prosecution under other relevant statutory legislation. If, there was a failure to implement health and safety procedures, so far as reasonably practicable, then a prosecution is very likely. However, this would not necessarily include a single or individual failure, but more likely an institutional failure of some magnitude. Regards Ray
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#5 Posted : 03 November 2005 00:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Brunskill John, I think this is what you may be looking for: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...nd/hampshire/4395478.stm
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#6 Posted : 03 November 2005 09:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By John D Crosby Hi Thanks to those of you that replied with further information. It was a great help. Just goes to show how good this forum is in helping people. Take care John C
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#7 Posted : 03 November 2005 14:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Following on from what steven bentham says above, what do we think of this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4400554.stm? What would be the reaction if any other organisation admitted to killing 2,000 people a year because it wasn't doing its job properly. And yet, on the day when this news comes out the UKs journos are busily bumping their chardonnay stained gums about fights between 'celebs' and the (supposed) effects of the WAHR. John
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#8 Posted : 03 November 2005 14:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By bigwhistle The NHS literally get away with murder they still believe they have Crown immunity and they dont!
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#9 Posted : 21 November 2005 22:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By MariaC Hi John My name is Maria Cann, I am the regional rep for MRSA Action UK. We are very interested in your posting. Our H&S Rep would also be very interested to know if you have encountered MRSA, and breach of H&S Law within a healthcare setting. If you want to contact us our details are on our website http://mrsaactionuk.com/ I am sure you would be interested in our views.
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#10 Posted : 22 November 2005 14:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By jackw. I suspect the main reason health trust, health professionals, doctors etc.are not prosecuted more is one of culpability. How do you proove that1 deliberate act or even that it was deliberate, ommission etc. led to the fatality? very difficult area re proof beyond a reasonable doubt and, of course, they can always bury their mistakes!!!!!!!!!! Cheers.
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#11 Posted : 22 November 2005 17:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Some of the above postings are a gross misrepresentation of the people in our health service. Blind sniping is both unfair and unjust and is in the best traditions of some of the downmarket tabloids. The health service is well aware that crown immunity no longer applies. There has been a lot of catching up to do, but the NHS has an objective to be an exemplar employer with respect to occupational H&S. That may be a tall order when compared against some of the top performing big companies, but it is a move in the right direction and I think, as an employer, the NHS can now stand scrutiny. With regard to Section 3, the NHS is automatically in a much more difficult position than anyone else. Patients far outnumber staff, and they have to be taken care of 24/7. Unlike the residents of a hotel, hospital patients are frail or sick. Unlike residents of a care home, hospital patients can be given potentially life threatening drugs, treatments or operations. Inevitably there will be more adverse incidents affecting patients in healthcare than to "other persons" in other sectors. I agree that mistakes have been made. Over reliance on anti-biotics contributed to sloppy hygiene practices and the emergence of resistant strains of previously treatable bugs (sorry, Stuart), such as MRSA. A massive effort has been made over the past couple of years to restore hygiene to its rightful position as a religeon. As for clinical errors - lets face it even the best, most highly trained and experienced practitioner is often making a best judgement decision on the basis of the evidence. Like us, they are human, and how often do we see conflicting advice about the same problem in this forum? Regrettably, there is still a culture of arrogance amongst some, and willingness to accept advice from others, even juniors, would not go amiss. So too would a willingness to be subject to scrutiny and monitoring. I still find it hard to imagine a consultant surgeon going through a checklist prior to an operation in the same way that an airline captain must do before whisking 400 people away in the back of a 747. But, little by little, these attitudes are changing, and I was recently gratified to hear an auxilliary nurse remind a consultant to wash his hands between patients. Clearly medical negligence could fall within Section 3 HSWA, but this is not the only possible route to prosecution. The Police can bring charges of assault, "GBH" or even manslaughter if appropriate. Generally, however, the authorities leave medical matters to the GMC, who arguably are best placed to judge whether or not a doctor has been negligent. They can impose fines, suspensions and can strike doctors off. Similar arrangements are in place for nurses.
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#12 Posted : 25 November 2005 15:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By MariaC Some interesting comments there John, I am assuming you are referring to a nursing home / hospital environment in your comment relating to the 24/7 care of patients. You need to remember that this is only a small proportion of the care that people receive from the NHS. If for example, a Primary Care Trust is found to be lax in their Infection Control procedures, and they fail to put measures in place to mitigate risk, then arguably they should be prosecuted under Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Act – particulary if they are given the opportunity to put measures in place on discovering a problem, and fail to do so. This would surely be regarded as a systematic failure.
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