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Posted By Kevin Costello
After a few near misses of reversing vehicles nearly striking pedestrians some have suggested that a parking policy should be introduced. Does anyone know of any official guidance that favours reverse parrell parking over driving into the parking bay and then reversing out or vice versa.
There is plenty of guidance for workplace transport I am referring to private cars in company car parks. Any help would be appreciated.
Kevin
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Posted By Cr8r
Kevin
If I worked at your company and you told me I had to reverse into parking spaces, I would have to resign. I am a woman and I do not reverse into spaces. My brain just doesn't work like that.
Seriously though, have you looked at why you are having these near misses - what's your lighting like (if it is at night when you have the problem), are there obstructions, would mirrors help, do plants need pruning back? Is it a pedestrian thoroughfare or just other people returning/leaving their cars? If it is a thoroughfare, could you re-route them? How about raising employee awareness of the problem, tell them to always de-mist properly before driving off, scrape complete windows and lights of ice and condensation. Tell pedestrians to have their wits about them while crossing the car park - the non drivers won't realise how hard it is to see people.
If you do introduce a parking policy, you will have to think about how you will deal with "offenders".
Good luck and glad I don't work there! Parking to me isn't an art form, it's grinding to a halt and getting out of the car. Many a time have I struggled whilst male colleagues have looked on, helpfully commenting that they could park a bus in a space that only appears a thou of an inch bigger than my whole car. Mmmm. I haven't run anyone over yet though.
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Posted By Mark Talbot
I have a lot of experience with car parks and the one thing I have noticed is that pedestrians believe they have right of way and that any moving car CAN see them and WILL stop.
It might be against the general principals of the highway code (ACOP) to say that cars have right of way, but reminding pedestrians that cars are dangerous and to avoid passing close to those with exhaust fumes showing, might be helpful.
Giving a car a wide berth helps - remember most drivers are watching paintwork at this point, not looking around for sneaking pedestrians.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
cr8r
Since you made the non-pc comment I can now ask why many women find split screen televisions and watching 2 channels at once easy but cannot reverse park. I totally agree however as I find that some carparks are so narrow in the aisles that turning has become an art form of physical dexterity in the neck region as you try to see 4 ways at once!
On the original question I think effort has to be put into educating the pedestrians, after all if they are in the carpark it is likely that they are drivers also! They must recognise the problems somewhere along the line. Unless of course you are bringing pedestrians through the car park as an access route - the HSE tend to view this rather dimly!
Bob
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Posted By Cr8r
Robert
Watching two television programmes is multi-tasking. This is easy for any woman, as is the ability to hold a conversation whilst doing something else completely unrelated. Parking apparently involves some sort of spatial awareness capacity. I am sure there are many women who are excellent parkers but I do not number amongst them. Where I currently work though, the car park has been divided up to maximise the number of cars it will take and the spaces are so small that even my little corsa only just fits. Some of the spaces are done diagonally so that as you drive in, you have no option but to continue in the direction you are pointing, ie forwards, and then reverse out.
One place I worked at one though did have a car park that pedestrians used to teem through as it was a short cut to the bus stop and they were an absolute nuisance. A strategically placed bit of chain link caused them to change their route though!
PS Would any men please enlighten me as to how it can possibly be easier to reverse into a space than out of it? The bit I don't get is that if you drive in head first, you are going into a small space forward, ie in the direction you can see easiest. Then when you come to leave, you have the whole gangway bit to reverse into. This must be the easiest option.
I was at a supermarket once and I admit the car was a bit wonky. When I got out and started walking off, an amazed male shopper called over to me "you're not seriously going to leave it like that are you?" I replied "why not - I know from experience that I won't be able to improve on it - so why bother trying?". I don't know why he looked so shocked.
Like I said earlier - it's not an art form. Parking - when it stops rolling, get out, end of story!
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Posted By Mark Talbot
Sorry to the original poster, but have to try and answer Cr8r...
Reversing in has the advantage of occuring while you are still familiar with the car. On the occasions that the rear window is misted up when returning to the car it is handy too (note: £1,000 fine for driving whilst vision is impaired, this is not me inciting law breaking).
Reversing in actually tends to lead to fewer pedestrian risks because pedestrians recognise the moving car easier (big car becoming smaller, not small car becoming bigger) and tend to wait or go round.
Most of us are in more of a hurry to leave than to arrive, so investing time in reversing pays dividend when leaving.
In our train station car park it is often the easiest way to get space enough to open the drivers door - parking snugly passenger door to passenger door. That relies on cars facing the opposite ways - so carry on going forward.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Suggest you look at segregation of pedestrians and vehicles, redesigning and marking-out the car park to avoid this conflict, as well as a bit of education for the workforce? Whilst a 'no reversing' policy is admirable (highway code has one or two pointers), it may be difficult to 'enforce'.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Reverse parking in a car park actually is much easier than driving straight in. (I'm not talking parallllllel (hdyst) parking on the street. At which I am naff) I have seen people taking up to six goes to forward park whereas I can just drive past the space, leave plenty of room to swing the front end out and drive back into the space using only the mirrors. Maybe one shuffle to get it straight and tidy. Really, I'm not bragging, but I drive a very expensive (and totally worthless) Rover 75. So I am very motivated not to bend it.
Theories have been offered as to why it is "safer" to reverse-park. One is that when you come to park your brain is in "driving mode" so you are more aware, having driven a mile or two, of spacial relationships than if you had just got into the car.
Second is that when you are reverse-parking you have good visibility of obstacles ( pedestrains) around you. And when you are driving out forwards you again have excellent visibility.
Finally, on the male/female dichotomy. YES ! Wherever I go, when I want to talk to someone on the shop floor I find that I can talk to a woman and she will talk to me without stopping what she is doing. Put the same question to a man and he will stop working to answer me. Doesn't matter if it is data entry, chemical process monitoring, changing nappies or whatever, women can do all these things while talking about holidays, kids, schools, shopping, politics and politicians .... Ask a man about saturday's match and he will STOP.
So who has the better brain ?
(In the spirit of behavioural safety, I expect my preferred behaviour to be Recognised, Rewarded and Reinforced by at least 50% of you)
Merv
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Posted By Brett Day
Merv
Duly recognised, not sure how I would get the reward to you (do you accept brown paper bags a la Have I Got News For You?). As an aside by reversing in the car is effectively set up like a fork truck giveing greater control and manouverability at low speeds.
Pet hates on roads and car parks:
Landscaping that obsures views (not a car park but in Maidstone the approches to rondabouts were landscaped accident went up, drvers 'thought' that there was no traffic and carried on, the only safe way is to drive up and stop and look, have seen quite a few near misses in car park where pedestrians 'suddenly' appear from behind landscaping.
Parking bays that are too small, worked at one site and they reduced the size of the bays, you could get a car in but you then couldn't get out of the car !! Coupled with cars getting bigger in it's class e.g. the new Ford Focus is longer and wider than it's previous version the problem is likely to get worse.
I'm not aware of any official guidance though.
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
It beggars belief.
It's also easy to see that many of you have not sat your driving test recently.
Parking the car is part of the test, you can fail your test by bad parking !
If you cannot park in a car park you should give up and take a bus !
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Posted By Barry Cooper
It's interesting how we feel we must train people to park their cars on the car park. What about when we go shopping in town or at the supermarket. What's the difference. Is it because we are at work? and the duty is on the employer.
Or is it just that the carpark is badly laid out
Barry
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Posted By Brett Day
Barry I'm with you on that point, poor design of car parks / roads can cause many problems to even experienced drivers.
John Passed my driving test five years ago, didn't think it was much of a test then and having passed the IAM advanced test and currently taking the training for the police Class One test am of the opinion that it is even less of a test !
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Posted By Robert.
Forget the car parking. What about the "pedestrians" that leave their empty trollies in parking bays and in the traffic route. They too are drivers and many of them cannot judge the length and width of their trolly. So, if they can't "parkatrolly", what hope is there for them to park and or reverse a car?
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Posted By Helen Horton
I think you have to do a bit of education of both pedestrians and car drivers. I nearly took out a whole family on Saturday when their Dad dragged them through the parking space I was trying to reverse into. Yes I am a woman who reverse parks! BUT only when it is the most suitable way to do it. It is easier to reverse into a tight space in a a narrow aisled car park, don't know why, its probably geometry or something but it just is. However, I never, never ever reverse park in a supermarket. Why? because you can't push a trolley between two cars to get your shopping in the boot. I know this, my car has the scars to prove that some thoughtless male driver did just that and then drove away having gouged great scratches all the way down the side of my car. Getting back to the point my Dad, very wise man, instilled in me that when walking through car parks you have to assume that any car will move at any time and you have to keep your eyes peeled and that you should wait until the car has stopped or gone and never ever walk behind a reversing vehicle. I'm not sure about the small car getting bigger, big car getting smaller stuff, surely most (all) cars these days have reversing lights that make it kind of obvious.
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Posted By Mark Talbot
It is easier to reverse in tight places because the steering is now effective at the trailing end of the car (front becomes back).
This means that more steering can occur - the part of the car entering the space is now restricted by a car either side - whilst the trailing end can take wider arcs. This allows for correction and adjustment.
Front-wise parking is easy if you aproach the space head on, but if you have to turn 90 degrees reversing is easier. So as the angle increases on a narrow space, the ease of front parking decreases.
Anyone who wants to improve their skill should use toy cars that have working steering, because seeing things from above really helps understand what we have all been trying to explain.
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Posted By Cr8r
Mark
You are my new hero. I now understand it all completely. I am also forklift trained and have never had any trouble maneouvering the fork truck around at all. I have wondered if it is because it is the rear wheels that turn on the fork truck that makes the difference! Getting back to Kevin's original posting, it seems we all agree that where ever possible:
Educate car park users and pedestrians.
Get rid of obstructions such as landscaping, bushes etc.
Improve lighting.
Suggest to people that they might try to reverse into spaces!
After having read everyone's suggestions, I am willing to have a go at reverse parking. It's not that I can't do it at all, it just takes me longer, so I tend not to bother. You all had valid points though, so I for one shall be giving it a go!
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Posted By Martin Mulholland
I remember a Company I was doing some working for a few years ago. Their policy was to reverse park as the spaces were close to the building.
This was because it was part of their fire arrangements to remove the cars in the event of a fire.
There's actually some sense in it (them being full of petrol and all).
I agree with some fo the sentiment posted here (though not the sexist stuff - it applies both ways) - if you cannot suitably manoevre a vehicle then you shouldn't be driving one.
My tuppence
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Posted By Cr8r
Martin
Did your fire procedure tell them to collect personal belongings then, so that they all had keys with them? Good point though. I also remember somewhere where the car park was an old stable block yard and they asked everyone to park front ends to walls because they didn't like the exhaust marks that were appearing on the brickwork! You could tell who was disgruntled by the way their car was pointing!
As for if you can't maneouvre you shouldn't be driving - well it takes me ages but I'm not actually a danger!
Reminds me though of when a female friend of mine got a new (second hand car). We went up the road in it and the oil light came on, so we pulled into a petrol station to check the oil. Because she'd only just picked the car up, she didn't know where the dip stick was. I couldn't see it either, so I suggested we get someone from the garage to tell us where it is (we knew the people that worked there). Well, a man at one of the petrol pumps was disgusted and shouted out to us that if women don't know who a car works, we shouldn't be allowed to drive them! I think you are all getting to know me a bit by now. I asked him if he was married, and he said he was. I then asked him if his wife knows how the washing machine, the cooker and the iron work, and that I bet he's happy for her to keep using them! He didn't bother us any further!
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Posted By J Knight
I can't park for toffee, my (female) partner can drop any car accurately into a space barely larger than it is even on Sheffield's hills; remember, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, pop-psychology is from Uranus,
John
PS I can multi-task better than she can though
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Posted By Ken Taylor
There was a long discussion on this subject some time ago. It should be in the archive if you're interested.
From my point of view, it's annoying enough getting the little dents in the sides of the car from people that can't control their car doors when openiing them without risking the serious impact damage if they have to reverse into the narrow spaces provided between parked cars.
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Posted By robertprice
Kevin,
I have been trying to find an answer to exactly the same question as you. To date, all I can find is clause 177 of the highway code: "Do not reverse from a side road into a main road. When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can." Not quite the same thing, I realise, but prompting the driver to always reverse from the major to the minor and drive from the minor to the major. Did you find anything better?
regards
Rob.
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Posted By Brett Day
Roadcraft the police drivers manual recommends reversing in, mostly for operational reasons, so they can get a move on if called out, also better vision looking out rather than looking over your shoulder.
Any use ??
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Posted By Mike Craven
Just to add to the car parking anecdotes
I remember about 5 years ago going with my then boss to carry out an audit at a post office in the North West. At the time, the Post Office had a number of "pool cars", which we booked for visits. Most of the cars were little efforts but, on this occasion, all that was available was something widely referred to as the "Big Peugeot".
We arrived at a local car park with spaces suitable for Corsas, Micras, Minis and such like and I spent about 10 minutes going backwards and forwards to eventually squeeze the "Big Peugeot" (quite brilliantly) into the tiniest of gaps. We parked up with about 2 millimetres between us and the car on either side of us. My boss - all 6ft 2 and 17 stone of him, looks at me and says,
"Ok mate, so how do we now get out of this car!!!"
Regards
Mike
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Institute of Advanced Motorists also advocates reverse parking into bays for safety purposes. Reasons have already been discussed above.
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Posted By Sean Fraser
And while we are on the subject - if you DON'T reverse park outside of offices of certain large multi-national oil-related organisations in Aberdeen, you will become the proud owner of a STOP card which will require you to do pennance on your sin and take immediate corrective action for future parking!
I'm all for the safety of it, but forcing people through safety observation systems is a means of putting people off, not encouraging them.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
I don't mind advanced motorists reversing into the space next to my car - it's the drivers you meet in supermarkets and leisure centres that worry me.
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts
I expect to see employees reversing into car parking spaces - particularly the females it is drummed home as part of the personal safety training that it is a sensible precaution to take particularly if you need to make a swift getaway - apart from the fact that it means that you dont have to crane your neck to see if there is oncoming traffic that you are about to reverse into when leaving. Come on ladies we know who are the better drivers why else would we get cheaper insurance
We introduce a 5mph speed limit in the car park and myself and several of the managers are not slow in coming forward to challenge those driving to fast.
We have clearly defined parking bays and non parking areas - the most difficult challenge is to deal with delivery drivers and drivers from adjoining units who fail to read the notices
Risk assessment and regular review helps as improvements can be made bit by bit
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Posted By Barry Cooper
Nothing wrong with driving in front first. You just have to be careful when reversing out. Reversing sensors are great on my BM, it even senses people.
Barry
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Posted By Ken Taylor
- and with many car parks you can't get things in and out of the boot of the car if you reverse in.
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Posted By jackw.
Hi, not sure this is completely accurate. But I am sure from my Uni. Psychology days that it is a spatial vision thing with many women for some reason (possibly genetic) having poor spatial vision. I do recall one of my psychology lecturers, a very very smart lady with 2 PhD’s, had great difficulty with a simple task like crossing the road. According to her it was to do with poor spatial vision.. - she couldn't judge the distance a car was away from her. Apparently parking a car is similar for many women.
May not be 100% but sure sounds plausible haha
probably get slaughter by our lady members!!!
Cheers
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
I must confess I have not read every posting but nonetheless I would like to add something to this interesting topic.
My local supermarket is an extremely dangerous place for pedestrians. Largely due to the narrow parking bays and close proximity of them in relation to the opposite bays and insufficient pedestrian walk ways. Of course, there are many contributing factors, but, assuming it is a design fault, would the designer (CDM) be liable if it could be proved?
I would be interested in your views.
Regards
Ray
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