Posted By IT After putting my cap back on straight ,gathering my toys (at Bills Suggestion) and taking up the dare here it is for all to see. Positive ways to contribute to the membership structure (maybe,sorry Bill could not help myself) Have your say !!!!!!!

Posted By Mark Talbot If someone has an impartial friend with a reasonable amount of time to donate, perhaps we could ask for an external review with comparison to other chartered institutes? Getting to the Bar, becoming a Chartered Accountant, etc., all have their hurdles ... are ours any worse? We are all familiar with benchmarking, so let's do some.

Posted By gham I think that the current membership structure is excellent and would not like to see it changed... again. I have worked in an H&S environment for around 4 years now, and will complete my University diploma in OHSM in June (which at one point was an acceptable alternative to the DIP 1 and 2 but with the introduction of Level 4 I'll need to do another course to keep up). I think that over a 6 year period (by the time i join this will be 6 years) and the accrual of Dip OHSM, BSc OHSM and I'm doing a MSc in Risk. GradIOSH will be the designation and membership level that have earned opening new and exiting doors such as junior H&S advisor or enabling me to get on to that Post Grad Scheme somewhere. I will then look forward to becoming CMIOSH after and additional 2 years IPD total of 8 Years to get those letters. This is a fair and well thought out processes, I have no complaints

Posted By IT There goes the neighborhood, Thanks Bob for a straight forward response and information , I don't think that the IIRSM post has anything to do with this (I Hope). It was a vehicle for which the disaffected could suggest improvements,and allow some positive feedback and suggestions from members and non-members. and only suggestions like Marks positive post. I found your info rather interesting.

Posted By PT Over the last year or so – I’ve been asked to take H&S students out on site visits by a local university (I work in construction safety) to gain some experience of the area of work that I’m involved in. It would be nice if we had some sort of scheme/placement set-up via IOSH that new H&S professionals can get a helping hand from? I’m not sure how or if it could work however, I do remember how difficult it was for me in trying to get on the first rungs of the ladder. I believe it would only benefit both the individuals and IOSH in raising the profile of the profession.

Posted By Hazel Harvey Benchmarking was undertaken all through the development of the new membership structure and where good practice was seen it was discussed and if suitable incorporated within the proposals discussed by Council. It is normal for there to be a development period after a person gains a qualification. It is the experience after a person has obtained the knowledge that is defined by the profession, which is relevant in the progression to CMIOSH.Although most prospective members will have experience prior to gaining qualifications, it is not considered within the current structure being launched on Thursday. However, I think this area is perhaps one that might be re-visited again as the new structure is embedded. 2 years is actually quite a short time for an IPD process, many other professions require a lot longer, it is expected that this minimum period will be OK for those with prior experience but for those with less it may take a bit longer than the 2 years minimum. Work experience is on the list of things to develop and some intitial research was carried out last year. When the dust has settled after the transition of membership and the implementation of the new CPD scheme this will be revisited.

Posted By Brett Day As I have said on the IIRSM thread and said to IOSH when they 'consulted' TechSP's safety is different to engineering we run from low risk to high risk, the membership structure does not adequately reflect this. Also it might be an idea if IOSH actually listened to it's non corporate members, many including myself were against the change/scrapping of TechSP (mainly due to it's use in the construction industry as a benchmark) but the change still went ahead. We have also been given a pretty rough deal in terms of the elevating of affiliates to the same standard as TechSP's even though they do not have to have the same quals and experience as TechSP. I have been given poor information from IOSH and the feeling that I get from IOSH is that as a non corporate member I am not of value to IOSH.

Posted By Stupendous Man I have to agree with the comments made by Brett Day. Corporate (or Chartered) membership of IOSH is not the be-all and end-all of good Health and Safety advice. The new membership structure seems to miss the opportunity to confirm that, for example, TechSP (TechIOSH to be) coupled with experience may be sufficient for a safety advisor/manager in a low risk environment. At the moment, it seems to be the purpose of IOSH to promote the message that only Corporate members are worthy to be called Safety Advisors and Managers. As a TechSP, I do not feel that there was adequate consultation outside of the Corporate Members loop. From what I can see of this exercise, and many comments over time on this forum, many Corporate Members (but not all) have the attitude that 'I'm all-right, Jack'! I've put alot of work into my health and safety career, yet I now feel that this effort will not count for anything.

Posted By Robert K Lewis David B You made the point I was making in summary.IEMA cannot, unlike IOSH, manage the chartered process itself this has to be via the Soc. Env. route and as you state a MIEMA is not automatically CEnv also. There is a separate process governed by the Soc. Env. If I can recollect my thought patterns I was endeavouring to clarify the position that IOSH as a chartered body is specifically responsible for maintaining its internal standards because the model of chartership means that corporate membership is also chartered, unlike the Soc. Env and Engineering council type model where the an external body to the primary institution decides on the award of chartered status. It is different not necessarily better or worse. For chartered institutions any changes to membership requirements have to be clearly thought through for impact elsewhere particularly on chartered status itself. Bob

Posted By IT Sorry Bill, I did try; there are some constructive points in most posts. firstly there is No such membership Grade as a Junior (gham) your either a member or your not regardless of the level of membership, but I do understand your point, I initially went down the path of CPD because my Employer wanted it after attending 2 meetings on behavioral safety and presentations with my local chapter, I stopped .why Old hat, I kept dairy notes and when I forgot to fill the dairy in for a week or so, simply wrote a variety of things in it. I like the suggestion from PT about involving people at various levels and until Bob provided information on issues he has been exposed to, I did not know they were there. It also seems that experience is not a prerequisite for anything, I don't see a change except that a lot of people are in for a shock when they apply for CMIOSH (including some supporters), although I do see a race to see who gets it first. More consultation with the TechSP membership seems to be raised often, not sure how this works. I noted a suggestion for a protest and that the moaners should join other organisations ,why ,the only way you can change an organisation (or some people in it, that is if you have voting rights) is to be apart of it and voice your concerns or discuss rationally issues that affect you ,so I must be a moaner (in your opinion) ,by inferring sensible debate and concerns are moans ,you may achieve your objective and others will not join the discussion. If people are happy with the current process, why fix it if it works. (Putting on my flame proof suit now) My rant for the day, again Sorry Bill I did try?

Posted By IT Bob, From past experience the few that claim to represent the many ,would never step into an open debate for fear of criticism ,the challenge is to debate it openly and fairly ,with a genuine listening to ALL members regardless of their position in the Organisation. Surveys we have all tried them at some point and I think most would agree, THEY DON'T work (Example I surveyed 41000 members on safety related issues within a specific industry and received 50 back)and you can always say we consulted our membership and the majority have agreed..... Being gifted a charter because of a role in any organisation is nothing less than cronyism ,no one would be that bold to stand up the day after a launch and say I am a Chartered Member, but then if we accept that we accept a dual application of the charter (a rule for some and a rule for none). I don't think I will get any CPD points for this either.

Posted By Robert K Lewis IT If you Propose anything at the debate I will Oppose it just to get the debate to work. You are right of course that many do not like the temperature of public open debate but in fairness to Lawrence and some others I think they are people willing to enter the fray, whether or not we disagree with them is irrelevant. I do not see croneyism particularly at work, although sometimes one has to wonder at the errors that nearly get through. Is anyone else up for a public debate? Bob

Posted By IT And I thought the process was relatively short for 2 years, so existing MIOSH members will simply become CMIOSH on Thursday ? Can someone please explain this process

Posted By peter gotch Ian, Process is on the membership pages. See in particular http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...m?go=corecompetent.faq#3 Regards, Peter, non elitist FIOSH RSP

Posted By IT Sorry if that offended Peter , It was not meant to ,it is just my warped humour !!!! Thank you for your contribution on the other post also. Iain

Posted By IT Looks like I will have to re-join then and hopefully meet people like yourself and those with a similar passion for Safety (and Health). Any membership position for bottle Washer going ???? Open and free debate/discussion the cornerstone to learning and improving , where do I resubmit ? probably won't have me again afetr this. Iain