Posted By Brett Day I've already said what I feel both to IOSH and on these forums, we are getting a bum deal, as a TechIOSH with your quals and experience you will be on the same level as a former affiliate member. I for one will not be renewing my membership next year !

Posted By john fitzgibbon I totally agree with PTH. I hold an honours degree in Chemistry and a post graduate diploma in Chemical Engineering, I am a Chartered Chemist and MRSC. However as these quals are not considered cognate they are not recognised wrt IOSH membership. I gained my NEBOSH Dip 1 in 1999 and have spent the last 8 years working in various H&S roles. As I am rapidly approaching the age of 57 I suppose the thought of all that CPD is daunting (even if I could get my employer to suuport it which is extremely doubtful) I smiled at Anne Smart's thread where she acknowledged IOSH had already asked the Lottery winners what they thought of the Lottery and now she was interested to hear from the "rest of you" Yours Sincerely Grumpy Old TechSp

Posted By ITK I saw the changes coming last year whilst a TechSP and saw that as a NEBOSH Diploma Part 1 holder I was being downgraded to TechIOSH with the certificate holders. Fortunately for me my employer funded my further training and now I am MIOSH just before the changes are implemented. I realise that all practitioners are not so lucky and I genuinely feel for all the former TechSP's.

Posted By gham how many years would you be a TechIOSH working as a H&S advisor on a day to day basis and completing CDP before being concidered for an upgrade to CMIOSH Will or Does this Happen....... education through experience G'

Posted By A tech SP A cynic may think it is all about money!! Forcing people to undergo courses with syllabus content they will not use in a month of Sunday's as its relevence to general health and safety is on par with the cricket score over the summer and its relevence to the tour of Pakistan!! These courses can cost thousands just to get the MIOSH status. Then there is CPD, forget your tenner, low and behold you can pay to go on courses that count towards CPD. Down grade the status a bit and every techSP will want to regain the status so some of us will even pay with our own money. Then you have the belief amongst employer's that when they advertise a job they need to have someone who is MIOSH and probably RSP, great, that really proves that they can bring the skills needed to their organisation. It does make you wonder if NEBOSH and IOSH have some cosy chats sometimes (youve got ask yourself why IOSH courses dont compete with NEBOSH)and maybe the competition watchdog should have a look. I too will probably reconsider which trade organisation I belong to next year, but if the HSE was to have a register of safety practitioner's it would be interesting to see how many people kept their allegiance to IOSH. Another disgruntled, hardworking, cant believe my experience is the same as a new uni graduate, TechSP.

Posted By Robert K Lewis A TechSP Can I suggest that you consider some of the things you have said carefully. There is a complete separation now between IOSH and NEBOSH although at one time they were effectively sister organisations. IOSH training is not and never has been set up to provide professional academic training leading to membership. Its prime purpose has always been to serve members and other interested persons with training courses related to specific topic areas, much of it CPDable. On the CPD committee we are constantly in mind of the division of roles. NEBOSH diplomas are still accepted but the vaste majority of membership entry comes from 1st degrees, Post grad. degrees and diplomas and NVQs - IOSH does not place NEBOSH in a privileged position and has no financial gain from any NEBOSH provision. Bob

Posted By IT gham, Have to disagree; the TechSP/IOSH members are more advanced in the application area and in some (most) cases the legislative application also. From experience the employer looks at your practical application to the environment and years in practice as well as your academical background, a TechSP in a job interview with a GradSP who would you chose? My current role 4 applicants 3 MIOSH, various degrees of exposure (time) and an Old person like myself 25 years of exposure and roles no letters, I have the role (recommended by a MIOSH consultant BTW), GradSP’s can also get a rough deal they could apply for many roles and get none, because of the experience factor, which the can not get with out being employed. I do agree there needs to be a review of classifications, don’t think it will happen though you can't vote as a TechSP; someone was clever when that was dreamt up.

Posted By Robert K Lewis I can't locate my diagram of the structure and pathways at the moment so will excuse any errors of specific fact before I start. The GradIOSH designation existed, in a previous guise, for all those who had completed the Corporate membership academic requirements but who were awaiting the completion of their relevant experience time to achieve admission as a corporate member. There is nothing new in persons being allocated to this grade. From a personal viewpoint I have always tended to look closely at the experience of Grads before taking cognisance of what they say, i accept that many TechSPs have well grounded experience particularly in their own employment sectors and must be respected for that knowledge. The TechSP was a solution developed to try and fill a gap created in 1986/7 when the old associate grade was merged into the corporate grade. It was always intended that the grade would reflect the fact that the holders of the post nomial had achieved a particular recognised standard. The Diploma 1 and 2 unfortunately created some significant emphasis on the divide. It was expected that persons at TechSP might well complete their academic studies in some way and move on to corporate membership. This sense is still clear in the TechIOSH where it is anticipated that those following examinable routes would go through the 2 years IPD and interview process. Those entering via the NVQ routes or cognate associated degree will have an additional examination set by ???? before they progress to interview. What has changed is the formalised need for compulsory IPD prior to any interview. There is no intention to minimise the role and position of the former (as of last night) TechSPs. Bob

Posted By David Owen I find it quite strange that the Institute always refer to TechSP'S as an assistant to a Practitioner or someone working in a relatively safe environment. I personally only work part time in a formal safety role which is why I have not continued to a "higher" membership level because I work for a relatively small enterprise and have neither time nor funding to continue in education. I work in one of the most high risk fields of molten metal melting and handling both in the UK and Europe and my expertise comes from decades of experience and I do find it quite annoying in the assumption that TechSP's are of lower capability when, in their chosen areas, they are probably more effective in providing a safe working environment then many Practitioners with a much wider scope of knowledge

Posted By Richard Mathews I agree with you all on this one. I have been actively involved in H&S for 19yrs and have held TechSP since it was introduced. I also hold MIIRSM and AIEMA. I work in a high profile multi-site organisation with people who hold MIOSH RSP, FIOSH RSP, MIEMA and many others with various alphabetical extracts after their names. I know that these people all have respect for my experience and value my input in all our dealings. However, being in my 50s working full time, taking part in voluntary CPD and looking after a disabled wife there is little chance of me finding time and funding to be able to upgrade my membership. Now with the downgrading of all TechSPs I will find it even harder to even find the inclination.

Posted By Robert K Lewis Rob T Being a tad pernickety -AGAIN it is CFIOSH today not FIOSH RSP. I think we are parsing the grades here the status of TechIOSH and Tech SP were meant to have an equivalence if you look at the structure diagram somewhere on this site you will see it at the left hand bottom corner. The same place that it effectively has held throughout. My last post tried to emphasise that there is no leapfrogging taking place. I believe that now, with chartership resolved, the CMs and CFs need to start re-assessing how they personally can contribute to the development of the non-corporate membership Bob CFIOSH

Posted By Cr8r I agree with all the above sentiments about the down grade. However, I'm interested to know how anyone ever wrangles getting to a higher level at all? I've been in H&S for a fair few years, firstly bit by bit via internal training courses, until I had a fair bit of accumulated internal courses and experience, and I was under a more experienced wing as well. Eventually I left there and took up an offer to work at a new company. Small company but potential big hazards. I had no formal qualifications, so they grudgingly put me through the cert at day release. I had to find the cheapest option for this, which was a college for £500, and I was given no extra support in the way of study time or anything. In spite of this, I got distinction. I was employed as HS&E Manager at this job. I have since had other jobs, one as advisor, one as manager again, but despite my best endeavours, have not been allowed to further my qualifications, as the cert was deemed by some upper echelons to be adequate. I have not helped my own argument, as despite the lack of training, and not wishing to blow my own trumpet, I am actually blinking good at my job. I know my limitations and will seek advice if it comes to it. Most things I can deal with myself. How does everyone else get up the training ladder? Don't tell me to do distance learning - I did OU for years, which was excellent, but I now have two small children, work full time and have zero spare time! Yours frustrated NEBOSH Cert Distinction. No Letters. Heaps of experience.

Posted By Bill Parkinson There was always going to be "winners" and "losers" in the progress towards chartered status as the Privy Council have a big say in what is an acceptable structure. I am also a grad member of the IChemE but feel that to progress to chartered status in that organisation I would be battling against the tide as I have been in health and safety for the last 19 years and they are biased towards the process industry. What I will say is that in the IChemE there was a significant amount of disgruntled people when the membership grades were revised and people were "downgraded". To try and combate that they revised their Committee Structure to have an elected non-corporate member on the committee to act for and on behalf of those who were not corporate (and therefore chartered). Should we be suggesting the same ? I have still maintained my subscription to IChemE though as I do see some benefits from being a member at a "lower" grade. Also with reference to CPD I have completed a number of cycles and had no problem in meeting the required level and I have done this without attending IOSH courses. If you look at what is required within the CPD criteria you should be able to achieve it with a little application but no significant cost and certainly not attending conferences or courses merely for the sake of acquiring CPD points.

Posted By GLOW-WORM I was really glad to see this as a hot topic in today's OSH chat. I attended the Awards yesterday and whilst I am pleased for the Chartered status for H&S professionals I am also extremely miffed that the route has been downgraded for those without a degree but with heaps of experience and other (expensive) H&S qualifications. I have 7 years full time H&S experience, the Nebosh General Certificate, Dip 1 and numerous BOHS & Fire Safety qualifications. I was going to join IOSH as a TechSP after I had completed Dip 1, but was told by a chap on their stand at the NEC not to bother, because I would be better off joining after completing my Dip 2 (June 06) and then doing my two year CPD. However this is a pain because I have done 3 courses this year that carry CPD points, but these won't count towards my Chartered Status because they will not be after my Dip 2. It's not going to encourage people to join the profession. Experience and qualifications should be taken into account and by experience I don't mean just CPD points and time - who worked out the two year schedule ? I feel like the goal posts have just moved and the MIOSH grade that I was getting near to is now another 3 years away. I am lucky that my employer gives me financial support and time to carry out my study, but I have friends (also TechSP's) in other companies that don't get support. Some are even looking at getting out of the role as they cannot afford to carry on with the courses due to small necessities, such as paying the mortgage & eating ! Hopefully IOSH will notice the busy, essential TechSP's or there may be a depleted membership tally next year.

Posted By Sean Nuttall Guess this one is going to run and run. I, personally am totally hacked off that my efforts to successfully pass dip 1 were in vain. I was unable to finance dip 2 so was going to spend a little time here with the knowledge that I had at least part achieved my goal and that Tech SP had some standing and credibility. What I should have done is sit shining my seat doing diddly squat (with my Nebosh cert) undertaking my occasional bit of H and S (not necessarily full time) and ended up with the same standing in the IOSH world. I know people who barely scraped through cert but now have the same standing. This is not snobbery I might add just realism. Whilst getting my new business cards made up last week I had to decide on whether to include Tech IOSH or stick with my beloved (and it was beloved) TechSP in an attmept to show those who know (employers)that I had actually achieved something of worth and not just been issued a grace and favour - not worth a damn - freeby - open to almost anyone, position within IOSH. Not saying which way I went in the end... There was an understanding and respect amongst SPs that was based upon a shared knowledge of what we had all been through to get there. Now as part of our introductions to other Tech IOSH's, should we ask: Are you a real Tech IOSH i.e an old SP are you a free loader who had a cert and undertook a safety tour with a Tech SP once a month for five years ? IOSH has in effect shafted those of us who are not blessed with working for a major multi national with access to unlimited funds. Cheers guys, I am, in effect back to where I was 6 years ago when I just had a cert. This one will not go away unlike many subscriptions I suspect. You may feel chuffed to bits with achieving chartered status but the detrimental effect upon the Tech SPs should be underestimated at your peril. It is partly our subscriptions that pay for your Ivory towers

Posted By Brett Day I think the only way that TechSP's are going to get a proper vote on this matter is to vote with the wallet and membership, there was a consultation e-mail that appears to have been ignored. If every TechSP over the course of next year said Goodbye IOSH I wonder what the response would be ? Would anyone from IOSH care to explain why it has upset so many members and what if anything it intends to do to keep these members ?

Posted By GR What would you rather see on a business card, TechIOSH or MIIRSM. Goodbye IOSH you are the weakest link! Hello IIRSM nice to meet you. I'm a TechSP and proud of it, I like many others have worked hard to achieve what I regarded as a good level of competence, I wonder how many CMIOSH holders there will be in 5-8 years time. Goodbye

Posted By Raymond Rapp I have wondered why TechSPs have been so quite for so long? Clearly, the 'snow ball' effect is gaining momemtum. Whilst I agree that TechSPs are getting a bad deal under the new grading system, don't jump ship just yet. At least not until IOSH have had a chance to re-consider their proposals. After all, many of you will progress through your careers and although qualifications are not the be all and end all, they are still important. In the future it is likely to be more so. Therefore I suggest that you continue lobbying until such a time the cause maybe lost. Strenth is unity. Regards Ray

Posted By Stupendous Man Hey folks, apparently TechSPs will be getting new certificates to denote the change to TechIOSH. And there I was thinking that we weren't going to get anything out of all this! Hurrah! With my new certificate I now feel complete again...

Posted By Hazel Harvey Read the posting 'Can we use the C word yet'. You will find that the position regarding voting has changed following the AGM as well as the membership structure.