Posted By Jonathan Sandler The HSE have just published this: On 6 December the Health and Safety Commission (HSC) decided that HSE should produce a 'shortish' Approved Code of Practice (ACoP), but that guidance should be produced by industry and, possibly, endorsed by HSC/E. (An ACoP contains practical guidance on how to comply with Regulations, it would not include interpretation, best practice or the 'sales pitch' that you find in the draft guidance that was included with the Consultative Document.) Work on the analysis of the responses, etc. has been delayed as the result of an enquiry from the European Commission about the way we implement aspects of the European Directive that underpins much of our existing and proposed construction regulations. Preparing this reply is quite time consuming, but the exercise is useful in helping us to make sure that we properly implement the Directive. It is impossible to predict the outcome or extent of the delay at present, but most of the possible changes are minor. The paper that HSC considered at their meeting on 6 December is available at http://www.hse.gov.uk/ab...ngs/2005/061205/c123.pdf and provides further information about these issues. We will publish the anonymised responses that we received to the Consultative Document as soon as we are able, probably in late January or early February. It seems big brother is watching us! Regards Jonathan Sandler

Posted By Jonathan Sandler Robert, that early!!!!!

Posted By Jonathan Sandler Gossip on the streets is, and still waiting for conformation, MCG said NO to HSC, re new CDM regs, as I said still waiting conformation.

Posted By Jonathan Sandler Richie, Not to spread to much of IT about, but as long as we work to the letter of the law and not to spirit of the law, what chance do we have? do we want to change that approach? Do we set the standard for the rest to follow? should we be looking to legislation all the time, ref schuled 3 HASAWA 74, or should we be approaching the person at work and trying to eradicate 'I got away with it today' approach? Is our legislation to grey? should it be simplified and direct, MUST and SHOULD replaced with WILL, or are companies to scared to reduce profit by 1-3% for the cost of a human life. RANT me never. To much red tape, to much paper chaseing, not enough KISS. People want to work, but they do not need to work. Just a thought

Posted By Brett Day Am of the opinion that fiddling with the edges will make little real difference. The HSE needs to actively target clients, as said in another post I have conducted a fair chunk of CDM work for supermarket chains, little regard was paid to CDM, typically I got the call thursday afternoon "Can we have the plan F10 and review the contractors plan, by the way we start monday". Whilst clients may not have construction as part of thier core business, when they are of a certain size and standing, they have Legal departments, H&S departments who are able to/Should be advising them. In reality one client I worked for was using a produce buyer to procure CDM services. We repeatedly recieved the 'red letter' from the HSE re late notification, which we forwarded to the client. They had not been sent a copy. Now when a large household name company can get away with breaching the most basic of duties under CDM on a regular basis, what hope is there of trying to ensure that the more technical aspects are dealt with?? If the HSE had prosecuted two or three big names (not necessarily construction companies but household names who are neglecting thier client's duties) the message will start to get around. After all in the commercial world fines (and the resulting rise in insurance premiums) are a real incentive to buck ideas up. As an after thought, having spoken to many Architects, there seems to be little, if any real eduction on H&S/CDM within the Architects syllabus. One Architect told me "I design things that look pretty and win awards, I leave health and safety to you guys". He is not only Architect to have displyed that approach, but then if they are not trained then what do you expect??

Posted By Brett Day Jonathan, I'm with you on Reg 13, that page of my ACOP is so well thumbed from showing it to architects that the ink is rubbing off !! 'Forgive them, for they know what they do.'

Posted By Brett Day Oops it should be 'Forgive them for they know not what they do'.

Posted By Jonathan Sandler We have to wait till 07 to say goodbye to the Planning Supervisor!!!!! At the moment I am a TO EHO for an LA, so as a jack of all trades and master of .... I shall keep taking the pills, (nearly miss splet that)

Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH Oh Ken, what ever do you mean, letter not spirit.

Posted By peter gotch but Arran you missed the small print in HSE's January announcement.... Should any EC concerns be identified, which significantly impact on the proposal, the revision timetable will be subject to change. Given that HSE have just commissioned BOMEL to carry out further research on the impact of CDM, I think my money is on delay beyond October 06. Regards, Peter

Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH Aaran L-S thanks for the info, but I have been involved in the CDM Chat Forum for the last few weeks. But thanks for brining this thread back to life.FYI there has been a lot of comments from egineers, designers, and the like all basicly not happy about the coordinator, and a few other minor issues but not a lot of input from H&S persons, why! Regards

Posted By Brett Day Also as an aside, what do people think of the discussion forum on the HSE website ?? Personal opinion is where did they getthe software from ?? I don't find it easy to read or navigate have started reading one thread and ended up on another.

Posted By Paul1 I gather the EU front has two aspects: 1. EU have taken UK to European Court in respect of the 'as far as reasonably practicable' part of our legislation. Apparently the directive governing H & S at Work was updated in the late 80's can't lay my hands on the exact directive, so that the employers duty was absolute, not qualified, thus the disparity. 2. EU lawyers are reviewing how the UK implemented the temp construction sites directive which led to CDM to ensure compliance. All spells a long delay in my eyes! Never mind, it will give all the present PS's a chance to work up to John Carpenters recommended Competence levels!

Posted By Martin Mulholland Arran, I expect, as is unfortunately the case all too often, that the ACoP will be published some time after the Regs..