Posted By Dave Wilson
Loads of MP's have signed an EDM and have joined legal and safety campaigners to raise concerns about proposed changes to asbestos safety regulations.

The Health and Safety Commission (HSC) is currently running a consultation on the proposed changes until end Jan 06. The Control of Asbestos at Work
Regulations 2006 will amalgamate all Asbestos regs into one set of regs and will chamge
1. the fibre counting method
2. control limits
3 it also changes the 'minor works category
4. but more importantly it removes the requirement to have a licence or notify (FODASB5) the HSE/LA when working on or removing textured decorative
coatings and therefore allows unlicensed contractors to work with these products.

As of 14 December 70 MPs had signed an Early Day Motion (EDM)critical of HSC proposals and calling for more research. Particularly contentious is the proposed move that would allow untrained and unlicensed contractors to remove textured coatings that contain asbestos, who would probably have no insurance to do this type of work.

They will be expecting enclosures, NPU's, Decon and H Type vacs to be used as well as controlled stripping techniques so
How will the HSE 'police' this? its impossible because if they do not know where it is happening then they will be none the wiser!


The EDM says:


This House expresses concern that the new Control of Asbestos at Work Regulations 2006 will drop textured coatings from the list of materials
that only licensed contractors are approved to remove; is further concerned that the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has arrived at this proposal
without a proper evaluation of the risk associated with the material;believes that allowing unlicensed contractors to remove these materials
will put workers, home owners and families at risk; and calls for the proposal and research methodology to be reviewed.


Groups including the Construction Safety Campaign, the Hazards Campaign and the Asbestos Removal Contractors Association (ARCA) as well as ACAD
have all voiced serious concerns.


Terry Jago, Chief Executive of ARCA, said:


"How is this increased protection? From our experience, the HSE's claims are extremely questionable. The proposals are based on inadequate
research. The main concern appears to be cost cutting rather than protecting workers and families. Contractors without qualifications, supervision or insurance should not remove these materials.


"The people that will suffer will be workers, repeatedly exposed to asbestos without proper protection. Families who get in contractors to
remove textured coatings will also unknowingly expose themselves to asbestos, as it will be removed without proper protection. They will be
left without redress, since contractors will not be properly insured."


In the light of Asbestos being the biggest industrial killer that the UK has ever known and or will know, From a safety angle is this a good thing?

We all know someone who has suffered one of these terrible diseases and I for one think that this should not happen.

What do you think?

Posted By Dave Wilson
Staggered!!!!!

Tell that to the thousnads of people who suffer annually and will die in the future, What contractor will have the necessary training, equipment, experience and insurance if this happens.

Will your current EL and PI insurance cover your company to do this work?

This isn't cement, floor tiles or a resin WC.

If there is so much out there and is removed by unlicensed contractors then repeated high intensity exposure = high risk job & even higher if its covering a Limpet ceiling or AIB, you going to do this job?

Try telling the lady who just got a lifetime award from IOSH only two weeks ago or the thousands who suffer annually that this stuff is safe!!

Posted By Adrian Watson
No Dave,

You're quite right it is not asbestos cement, vinyl tile or resin wc; it is a decorative textured coating with 1-2% of chrysotile asbestos in it that is not readily released when it stripped. HSE/HSL have shown repeatedly and even had independant tests done (See annex D to CD205) and HSL reports that show that stripping decorative textured coatings pose lower risks than vinyl!

Regards Adrian

Posted By Dave Wilson
Rob,

If it is being stripped by non licenced contractors that is an offence so it is already underground! So building contractors are going to wet and steam strip or just use the 3lb hammer wet method.

secondly Reg 4 'Duty to manage' dont see very many EHO's or HSE inspectors enforcing this, as this is probably the most hazardous affect for the building trades into the future.

Adrian


1 Yes and then NO

2. Removing any ACM will in theory not release fibres if done properly! Like this is going to happen!! Enclosures, Type H, Airlocks, NPUs etc NOT A CHANCE!!!

3 YES and thats why the rest of the industrial world think so! Only people who have a vested interest in this stuff are the ones who are saying its not, remember the tobacco people, what about the masses of deaths from Asbestos related disease from the mines in Canada who are producing Crysotile.

Asbestos is a 'magic' product if used handled and cared for 'religiously' however the human race is not like that.

Just because something has a reduced risk that does not mean low or no risk.

Look at HSE www prosecutions data base then why have they served immediate prohibition noyices on companies removing AC because it has fallen on the floor and is being trampled in!!

This is quite purely the HSE and a cost cutting exercise as they will then not have to visit site where removal of Textured coating is going on. All the research and statistics is geared to 'prove' their case and is very very imbalanced, don't be fooled me old mate.

Do you believe everything which the CRR says remember this is sponsored by the HSC, If you could get someone from the Chrysotile institute to do the research and base the findings in the new Regs then ALL Chrysotile would be made a compulsory purchase!!

Remember Reduced risk is not NO RISK, its simple H&S give them the training, tools, equipment and management and the job will get done, this is a definate step back 25 years as this will be unlicensed, untrained, no equipment and NO Insurance.

Posted By Dave Wilson
Respect!

Remember today you are soaring with the eagles and tomorrow you could be pecking S*** with the chickens

Posted By Adrian Watson
Dave,

The HSE's data was not on only the ideal, but a mixture including dry stripping!

Furthermore, these proposals are supposedly risk based and not materials based. I for one believe, that whilst the idea of joining the regulations together is good, the way HSE is goining about it is non-sensical. I would rather they have a clear risk based process as CAW 2002 or a materials based process as ALR 83, rather than have a risk based process with guidance based on a materials based approach.

Regards & Respect Adrian

PS Where can I buy an asbestos burka?

Posted By Adrian Watson
Dave,

The HSE's data was not on only the ideal, but a mixture including dry stripping!

Furthermore, these proposals are supposedly risk based and not materials based. I for one believe, that whilst the idea of joining the regulations together is good, the way HSE is going about it is non-sensical. I would rather they have a clear risk based process as CAW 2002 or a materials based process as ALR 83, rather than have a risk based process with guidance based on a materials based approach.

Regards Adrian

Posted By John Webster
20 years ago, I took an orbital sander to the textured decorative coating on the walls of a bedroom. I knew little of H&S then, and had no idea the stuff contained asbestos. Even if I had, I'm not sure if I would have been aware of the risks. I wore no mask, cleaned up with an ordinary vacuum cleaner. I was blowing white "snot" for days afterwards. I was also a smoker back then.

I just hope the HSE knows what it is doing. I live with the constant fear that I now have a mesothelioma time-bomb in my lungs, and there is nothing I can do about it - unlike the smoking.

I appreciate that a lot of people are getting rich by preying on others asbestos fears, especially with unnecessary and inapropriate removal, but the answer should be better information and education on management of existing asbestos rather than reopening the gates to the cowboys.