Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Andrew Cartridge
I would like to ask my fellow learned colleagues a simple question, what is your opinion or experience of the HSE & their methods of “helping” us in our daily grind!!! Come on be brave its Christmas.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Heather Collins
At the risk of being branded a creep, I found my last HSE site visit (unannounced) about three months ago a perfectly good experience, where the inspectors concerned were happy to talk about a whole variety of things - not just the specific issue they had come to inspect.
I have other dealings with HSE through various working groups and find them to be very helpful and well-informed on the whole. Even many years ago when HSE prosecuted the company we still remained on friendly terms with the local inspectors - they were only doing their job....
I did have a less pleasant experience with an inspector in south London about five years ago mind you - she clearly had no clue what the hazards were in a rubber factory and the visit ended with her threatening action over something trivial (and frankly irrelevant) which she did not understand and me inviting her to go ahead. I never heard from her again......
Merry Christmas one and all
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Robert K Lewis
The cynic in me says why should I think - they don't!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Dennis Bray
Andrew,
I have had a number of informal and formal dealings with the HSE and generally have found them all to helpful and very productive. These deallings have ranged from requests for information, HSE opinions, enforcement actions and even HSE prosecutions. The types of dealings include a fatal accident investigation, multi major accident investigations and accidents to members of the public. Most of our HSE Inspectors are fine, approachable, understanding and professional.
Having said all that, in the last 18 years I have only had one "less than adequate" experience with a particular HSE inspector who when I challanged their interpretation, knowledge and understanding of a particular H&S issue accused me of intimidating them and being aggressive. Clearly in hindsight it was a classic case of a personality clash which we managed to resolve locally. In this particular experience there were a number of other issues involved such as entering my occupied office unannounced, walking round our workplace unescorted, frequently flashing their warrant cards at me and not going through our normal reception arrangements for visitor to our site.
As i say only one less than adequate experience in the last 18 years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By AlB
Whereas an inspector has a right (legally) to walk around site unannounced and unaccompanied, it is bad practice, is unsafe in some evniornments.
From my experience of inspectors, they are positive, friendly, informative and tolerant of difficult people. We have recieved excellent advice from an inspector in the past and the working relationship is good between the HSE and the company.
I guess the inspector is only as good as the person who is wearing the badge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ken Lucas
Similarly, I have only praise for the HSE. Having worked with them on numerous occasions throughout the UK in the last 12 months my experiences have only been very good.
Like ourselves they have a difficult job to do which as one mentioned "they often feel like they are pushing water up hill". I find that they welcome indivduals like ourselves, to support and assist them, and personally I have found the meetings/visits very interesting.
Seasons greetings
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Max Bancroft
This thread sparks a thought - are all HSE inspectors Corporate/Chartered Members of IOSH? If not, what professional body do they belong to?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Robert K Lewis
Who said professional?
Grumpy Old Man of Buxton
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Helen Horton
As someone has already said they're only as good as the person wearing the badge. A bit like Shane "A gun's only as good or bad as the person holding it!"
I've had good and bad experiences but as in life in general the bad experience is far more memorable. A young and recently qualified Inspector (history graduate - if that is relevant?) visited me at the paint factory I worked at - his mission was evidently to "bag a prosecution" on the Notification of New Substances Regs. He obviously didn't understand the regulations or the industry and our products and hadn't read the regs as he threatened us with prosecution for not subjecting each and every one of our over 5,000 products (most just colour variants) to a huge battery of tests. The give away was that paint and paint related products were specifically excluded from the regs but he didn't believe me even when I showed him the actual regs themselves. My company made an official compliant, got an apology from the Principal Inspector and I heard later that the guy in question had been sacked!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Max Bancroft
Interesting, Helen. "newly qualified" - in what? I look forward with interest to see if anyone has an answer to my previous post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By John Lewis
I have to agree with most of the other folk who have posted responses. My dealings with the HSE on all kinds of issues have always been pretty good. They have always been helpful and provided me with info' when requested. They even came to ask our advice on heat stress in a previous company; that was a major feather in the cap!
They have a job to do and so long as you do not try to get too cosy with them, bearing in mind if you cock things up they will bust you regardless of the relationship, they are usually OK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Alan Hoskins
Generally we have a good relationship. Inspectors attend a number of our local and regional group meetings, give presentations and offer advice on many issues.
And our team beat their team in a recent Christmas 'quiz' event at one of those groups! (no elf and sleifety questions luckily!).
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By David Kimmins
I had a great relationship with the HSE (Explosives Inspectorate) and the regular inspectors as well while I was still working in the UK 6 years ago, before moving to the USA.
They were always helpful, open minded, and wanting to work with me to have a win-win solution.
Furthermore I would often call them and they would visit at my request to help engineer a solution. I have always touted the HSE as the model of what a Safety Regulator should be. They work with an employer to make a safer workplace. On the other hand OSHA in the USA is self funded and gets its budget through fines. In my humble opinion OSHA is a detriment to workplace safety as it takes time away from an organization creating a safer environment to move into compliance management. I wish they would go and visit and learn from the HSE.
To answer Max's question and thus avoid any further frustration on his part, the people in the explosives inspectorate I always dealt with seemed to be C.Eng of one discipline or another (Chemical or Mechanical) in addition to being MIOSH.
David
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By SK
Some inspectors are great and offer good advice based on years of experience, other inspectors are public schoolboy idiots who don't know how to communicate. But the problem is that many inspectors nowadays are not being adequately trained and don't really know what they are doing. Don't even get me started on the subject of HSAO's who are just admin with limited training and are a court case waiting to happen.
By the way inspectors are not required to be part of any professional body. Some are members of IOSH out of choice but it's not a requirement. Some mistakenly believe that being an inspector makes them above all that!
What's even worse is that the current batch of inspectors are not required to have a degree, will not be put through a post-graduate course and will not be eligble for MIOSH let alone CMIOSH.
Don't kid yourselves that inspectors know what they are doing. Those days are long gone. It;s all targets and numbers nowadays.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Scottie CMIOSH
To support Max - what professional body do all HSE inspectors belong to? This surely can't be a tricky question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By SK
I replied but I will repeat it for you.
They are NOT part of any professional body. There is no requirement for them to be part of any professional body. They can choose to be a member of IOSH or other similar organisations but it is not a requirement. Up until recently an inspector would have been eligible for MIOSH and eventually CMIOSH. However, inspectors employed in the last year will not even be eligible for MIOSH becuase the HSE has scrapped the requirement for all inspectors to complete a Post Grad diploma in Occ Health in post.
Inspectors are not necessarily employed as pre-exisiting experts in health and safety. You need no knowledge of health and safety to be employed as an inspector. In fact having pre-exisitng health and safety experience can be a barrier to getting into the HSE (really!). The HSE trains people up to be inspectors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Robert K Lewis
To put it succinctly enforcement is not a professional occupation - It is definitely easier than finding the answers for your employer :-)
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By stephen j mills
Can I then take it that you have actually acted in such a capacity, Bob?
Regards,
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Robert K Lewis
Stephen
It is always far simpler to measure against a standard than to find the means to achive the standard.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By John Murgatroyd
Fortunately, with the new "no-red-tape-regulatory-scheme" being introduced by the gov, a visit from the HSE will be soon history.
Unless you have a serious accident of a death, oh !...so no change then !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By terry mallard
I know this is an old thread but from a regulator point of view ( inparticular LA enforced premise)will not mean that those work activities or process known for causation of accidents or ill health will not be inspected, but there will be other ways to carry out enforcement.
Both HSE and LA regulate work activities, however we both operate differently -speaking personally it is thought that a accident HSE would not investigate due to typeof injury/accident (some also say due to staff levels) that the LA would if it was under their control-this is not necessarily the views of inspectors but the policy of HSE
One particular tool, which i understand HSE have used for a while, is auditing of SMS. Us in LA side will be using this tool more. The 5 areas ( eg slips and trips, work at height etc) have and will continue to be focussed upon more closely, during routine inspections or contact interventions-that is not to say that other matters of concern are not adressed.
One thing i would like to add is whilst this thread relates to HSE, that indirectly this also refers to us in La, and even the other way round when HSE do a good job-LA get little praise. Figures show there are approx 3700 LA inspectors and around 1600 or so FOD HSE inspectors.
Th Hampton report is telling HSE and LA amongst others to change the way we enforce-partnership working is one of the many ways foward.
I am not going to say whay my opnion of the enforcement set up is on this site as it has been and will contine to be passed up through the righ chanels within our enforcement and partnership mechanisms.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Bill Parkinson
I have dealt with enforcing Inspectors now for over 12 years and there has only been one time where there was a problem (and it was a new inspector who had recently joined the HSE).
I have found that in dealing with Inspectors if you are willing to work with them and be open and honest, they are more willing to work with you. Try to fool them and they will become less tolerant and more willing to pursue enforcement action.
Lets not forget also at the end of the day most Inspectors like to have a good working relationship with people whilst we must still remember in some instances they have no choice but to take action as they receive instructions on enforcement etc. which they are required to follow.
Bill Parkinson
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By ITK
Well said Bill, nice to see a balanced response.
As one who works in Enforcement I have to say I agree with you wholeheartedly.
ITK
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.