Posted By Dave McIness
Sorry wrong forum!

Posted By Dave McIness
Hi Karen,

Anything you can send through would be a great help.

Many thanks

Dave

Posted By Frank Hallett
Dave

Go to the OPSI web site and look for fire.

There's a reaonable draft FRA there if you look; but it will need some adjustment for what you do.

Frank Hallett

Posted By Alan Murphy
Is it just me or what, i cant believe not one person has mentioned the sweeping changes of the new fire reforms coming in in april. I recently went on a seminar regarding it, and i very much doubt unless you are an ex fireman it would be suitable and sufficient. In their words they think the very least of suitable and sufficient would to have been on all pre fire fighter 3 week modules. It strikes me as going the way of legionella and asbestos you will have to have a company in to do the fire risk assessment.

Not forgeting these come in in April there is NO lead in, i dont think people fully understand how far reaching these are. Have a look here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051541.htm#9 or http://www.firesafe.org....legislation/rrfsord1.htm

Posted By DJ
Just in case you hadn't noticed. The new fire safety reforms have been delayed, possibly indefinately.

Apparently, to give stakeholders the change to get to grips with the proposed changes.

Regards.

DJ

Posted By Ben Ayres
The ODPM News Release 2006/0003
12 January 2006

Major fire safety reform - government gives stakeholders more time to prepare

The Government is to give business and fire safety experts more time to get ready for new regulations. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister has put back the coming into force of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order, made in June 2005, which will affect all non-domestic premises in England and Wales. A new date will be announced as soon as possible.

Posted By Heather Collins
"No lead in". Alan you can't be serious - everyone involved in fire safety has known for years that this was coming.....

Like Frank on the other thread I simply can't believe the ODPM (oh good yet another Govt Dept involved in Safety - just what we needed)has "chickened out" at the eleventh hour. Those of us who have been well aware of the changes for ages now look like scaremongers for trying to get people engaged early.

Complete farce.

Posted By Heather Collins
Sorry Alan - didn't read your post properly I thought you were complaining that there was no lead in.

I shall write out 100 times "I must read things properly before I post" :)

Glad I'm not the only one who feels let down by this.

Posted By Alan Murphy
I suppose it's how you interperate it Nick but i saw it as sweeping changes, in fact when i went on a seminar at the local fire training school apart from the importance of the responsible person and their duties.

They also spoke at great depth regarding the competent person to do the risk assessment. They said it has not been tested in case law as yet, but in the fire officers opinion the minimum that will be considered suitable would be if the competent person had sat all 5 (3 week) modules of fire training coupled with experience.

Posted By TBC
The new Fire Safety Order will indeed bring many changes to the way we think and prepare for fire prevention and fighting.

1. Fire certificates will be no longer issued. They are only giving initial instructions anyway! Like an MOT - valid on the day and things do change.

2. Each individual company will be responsible for their own fire safety. The employer must conduct a fire risk assessment regardless of the size of the risk. The identified responsible person could therefore take full liability.

3. Extended scope of consideration now to include property safety, fire fighter safety and the environment around the site as well as just protecting life. This means that allowing a building to be sacrificed is unacceptable due to the risk to neighbouring buildings and fire fighters. The responsible person would have a duty to protect the fire brigade. These could all be very far reaching and may, if you think about it include: proper signage on exit routes, fire doors that operate properly, identify processes and pipe work, safe storage, proceedures and plans written and practiced with documented proof. Yes we all have them (?) but how many times do you see a fire door propped open, not closing properly or damaged? Exit routes blocked?

4. Unlike the Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regulations, the Fire Safety Order places emphasis on business continuity and containing and preventing the spread of any fire. The effectiveness of fire prevention measures are clearly recognised as a major provision in doing just this. We're into the layout, strength and structure of the building now - fire spread prevention, holes in walls for services to go through which don't get filled in, ventilation systems that don't shut down in the event of a fire could go on and on.

5. Protection is explicitly extended to all occupants and not just employees. Visitors, contractors or passers-by also have to be considered in the risk assessment.

6. Fire fighters are to have greater authority to gain entry to premises and remove samples after a fire. What will they find in yours?

It will not be just a matter of we have a fire, let the Fire Brigade take over it's their job. If anything is found wrong before or after a fire where the property is destroyed, persons are injured or both. Then the Fire Brigade will be coming after the responsible person.

Lots of food for thought.

Posted By TBC
Heather - You can't engage anyone early enough. Well done for doing so. These obliagtions have always been there, just that some bosses choose to ingore them until a reform is drafted and placed under their noses.

Yes, we should have been getting prepared for April, but we should also have been perpared a long time ago for these measures. Most of them have always been there in some form - just not written out or described as they are now. They still need that further guidance though! Why? Because the sad thing is that you need these other bits of paper to wave under the bosses noses as well.

Posted By Nick House
Didn't say I wasn't taking it seriously, just that if you look in the right places, everything is there already (with one or two exceptions), according to the Fire Officer for my area, the RRO is simply clarifying the issue.

The other thing that I did forget was the part about Fire Officers having additional rights as far as gaining entry was concerned.

I'm all for the RRO coming in sooner rather than later to be honest, as once it's here, there should be no excuses.