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Posted By Vincent Hearn
All,
Having nearly knocked over a youth delivering newspapers this evening suddenly got me thinking....Should newsagents (as employers) be responsible for the fitness for purpose of their newspaper delivery children's (employees)bicycles? eg ensuring that lights and a bell are fitted and working? What if they (the deliverers) knocked someone over causing an injury, would the newsagent by Vicariously Liable (in the course of their employment etc)? Furthermore, what then of manual handling issues, lone working, the potential for violence at work and risk assessments for young persons being made available to the parents/guardians of these children?
Didn't realise that delivering newspapers could be so hazardous (and this from someone who had 3 rounds many years ago!)
Interesting!!
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Posted By James Sneddon
Vincent,
I very much agree. Having been a 'paperboy' myself in my youth it was a hazardous situation in the early mornings (6:30am). Not forgetting also the hazard of dogs. Having been bit by one myself on my rounds.
I use to carry two paperbags one on either shoulder. As the round progressed they became exceeding lighter. As did darkness to daylight.
Apart from ensuring the child is highly visible, the bike if used is roadworthy and the paperbag weight is kept below the mandatory maximum there is nothing much more the papershop owner can do to ensure the safety of the child. Perhaps also a reminder to the child each and everyday as well.
Thanks for bringing this topic on to the forum.
Regards,
Jim Sneddon
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Posted By Frank Hallett
Wen Oi woz yung:-
I have vivid memories of going out laden down like a mule, especially on Thursdays - the last Thursday of the month was an absolute killer!
We now have the MHSW Reg 3 & 19 which deal with this issue extremely well. The problem is that only a miniscule number of newsagents even know about the MHSW; and an even smaller number care about implementing them, if you don't believe me talk to any member of the FSB.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By bigwhistle
Frank
Apologise immediately to the hardworking News Agents of this country before they haul your FB butt before the IOSH professional affairs committee for libel.
Really whats the world coming to!
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Posted By bigwhistle
Frank
Careful no unsubstantiated and potentially libellous statements about Newsagents please.
Also a big thankyou to all those that make this site such a beacon of free speech.
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Posted By Frank Hallett
Sorry bigwhistle, but my statement is based firmly on the results of several surveys; many of which have been conducted by independant organisations.
Also, you may wish to conduct a "straw poll" amongst your local small shopkeepers and see how they percieve the legislation mentioned.
Perhaps you might like to kick-off another thread on the subject of "free speech" as I'm sure that most readers of this thread won't understand your allusion to that.
Frank Hallett
Frank Hallett
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Posted By bigwhistle
I enjoy to stimulate conversation and would never wish to slight any group particularly the Fire Brigade as I consider them to be exceptional brave individuals.
However I do believe many government organisations are under such extreme financial pressure they are not fulfilling their obligations either to their employees or the public.
The Government must set the example otherwise we descend into anarchy.
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Posted By Richie
As a council safety officer many moons ago, I tackled this issue.
Over and above the bike requirements, the ability of the children to carry weight, the school hours requirements and the age limits imposed, there is the thorny issue of where the children have to deliver to... In rural communities the school children have to deliver to farm yards - very dangerous places indeed, especially when unfamiliar to the children.
When I strongly recommended (wink wink) that the papershops give some of the routes a once-over, some of the feedback was abject horror at where they were sending the kids.
Lets not forget we owe a greater duty of care to young people. If approached by a member of the public regarding what to look for from a paper shop before allowing their children to work, I would be advising them to make sure the shop knew the routes to be used, especially farm yards, and sensible route boundaries to ensure the minimum of major roads required to be crossed. In sum, all that the paper shop owners require to do is think a little about the best and safest solution to these problems.
Richie.
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Posted By Helen Horton
Couple of added thoughts.
1 What about the parents? Would you allow your child to do it? My neighbour has recently been helping his son out with his round because the volume of material to be delivered on Sat and Sun with the supplements etc meant he couldn't cope and it was taking 5.5 hours to do the round. My friend said the if he had know what his sone was going to be getting into he wouldn't have allowed him to take the round but now he has it, the lad doesn't want to give it up!
2 What about the kids who collect the money for the Wheelie Bin cleaners? They are definitely under 13, probably around 10 and collect £1-50 from each customer for one bin and multiples of £1-50 when the brown and recycling bins are also cleaned. In my view they are too young to be doing this sort of thing, but what does my opinion count for?
3 What about the paper boy who cycled off the pavement into the side of my car, denting the door and scraping off the paint? He scarpered before I could pull over and stop safely, so I don't know if he and bike were unharmed and had to foot the bill for the repair myself.
I'm not one to promote the rise of the global supermarket chains but surely in this day and age delivering papers is like the Victorians sending kids up chimneys. Should we be doing it at all?
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Posted By ANDY1967
I can see where you're all coming from on the subject of safety for children. No one wants see a child getting hurt. When I was child, more moons ago that I can remember, I had a milk round that started/ended at 0430-0730hrs on schooldays and 0200-1200hrs on Saturday. On Sunday I had a 4 hour paper round. Yes a real martyr, but also a very well off teenager. I can remember jumping off the back of the moving milk van with a crate holding 16 pints in my hand. Your timing had to be spot on to avoid "kissing the tarmac".
The point I'm trying to make is this, risk taking is a vital part of growing up. Kids have to learn how to survive in the world. We only have to look at how kids "play" these days. Stuck on a chair in front of the computer for hours on end, what is more hazardous? You'll skin your hands and knees falling off a bike, but you'll wreck your back, fingers, wrists and eyes glued to a computer. Not to mention become unfit due to lack of exercise. Anybody heard of the display screen equipment regs? Are we going to enforce our kids to take regular breaks from the "GOGGLE BOX", assess their work stations, eye sight and suitability for the task?
I now work in a safety related role, but don't once regret riding my bike without brakes, making rope swings on rotten tree branches or building a cart from old pram wheels and racing it uncontrollably down hill.
Let kids enjoy a bit of growing up before being regulated. Any how, If you gave a 14 year old a risk assessment and safety brief before his paper round, they'd have forgotten all about it by the time they got to the front door and nicked a Mars Bar from the sweetie shelf.
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Posted By Michael Hayward
Our morning paper"boy" is about 80!! - just a thought
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