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#1 Posted : 21 January 2006 12:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH
According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the 60's, 70's and early 80's probably shouldn't have survived, because our baby cots were covered with brightly coloured lead-based paint which was promptly chewed and licked.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, or latches on doors or cabinets and it was fine to play with pans.

When we rode our bikes, we wore no helmets, just flip-flops and fluorescent 'spokey dokey's' on our wheels.

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or airbags - riding in the passenger seat was a treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle and it Tasted the same.

We ate chips, bread and butter pudding and drank fizzy juice with sugar in it, but we were never overweight because we were always outside playing.

We shared one drink with four friends, from one bottle or can and no One actually died from this.

We would spend hours building go-carts out of scraps and then went top speed down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into stinging nettles a few times, we learned to solve the problem.

We would leave home in the morning and could play all day, as long as we were back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us and no one minded.

We did not have Play stations or X-Boxes, no video games at all. No 99 channels on TV, no videotape movies, no surround sound, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no DVDs, no Internet chat rooms.

We had friends - we went outside and found them.

We played elastics and rounders, and sometimes that ball really hurt!

We fell out of trees, got cut, and broke bones but there were no lawsuits.

We had full on fistfights but no prosecution followed from other parents.

We played chap-the-door-run-away and were actually afraid of the owners catching us.

We walked to friends' homes.

We also, believe it or not, WALKED to school; we didn't rely on mum or dad to drive us to school, which was just round the corner.

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls.

We rode bikes in packs of 7 and wore our coats by only the hood.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of...They actually sided with the law.

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

And you're one of them. Congratulations!

Show this to others who have had the luck to grow as real kids, before lawyers and government regulated our lives, for our own good. For those of you who aren't old enough, thought you might like to read about us.

Dont forget the cotton wool!
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#2 Posted : 21 January 2006 12:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By bigwhistle
Dont forget the endless thrashings by teachers!
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#3 Posted : 21 January 2006 16:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charles
And do you what has sneaked in while we have been enriching ourselves and others with modern technology ... crime. So I think the balance of social life we had will never be the same again unless crime is irradicated, and parents can be parents again ... kids need to feel free ... in a SAFE ENVIRONMENT!
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#4 Posted : 21 January 2006 16:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Did all that and miss it. And I've still got the scars and a slightly stiff shoulder.

And as a young lab technician I remember when I was bitten on the finger by a mouse. My boss gave me a clip around the ear and told me to stop being stupid.

But I also remember three kids from our street of 50 houses who didn't make it to the end of school days. One drowned in a gravel pit (where we all swam frequently, as did we in the grand union canal lock), one drank poison in the kitchen (2 years old)and one fell out of a tree in the municipal park. (which is just how I got the stiff shoulder)

Swings and roundabouts, innit ?
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#5 Posted : 21 January 2006 17:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charles
Now what have our children turned into ... a lot of unsociable human beings ... surely this can be reverted with careful strategic planning in illiminating CRIME and motivating our children to explore and feel nature FREELY ... imagine how healthy, stressless and environmentally conscious they will be ...
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#6 Posted : 23 January 2006 10:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker
Merv, that reminds me of my time as a junior lab tech. Was cleaning out cages full of rats and stupidly dropped one, poor thing got in a corner and I tried to quickly pick it up. It grabbed hold of my thumb and hung on for dear life, I could feel its teeth against the bone. Course I panicked and it bit down all the harder. The boss rushed it to see what the noise was and said “don’t you dare harm that animal its part of an important experiment”

Further to reminiscences of this schoolboy, not all good: I remember a lad who lost his eye when someone flicked an elastic band at him on the school bus. The kid up the road who suffocated in a discarded fridge, I have a vivid image of that kid’s dads face burned in my memory. If you ever see a daft old bloke on waste grounds smashing hinges off old fridges and freezers– that’s me!
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#7 Posted : 23 January 2006 12:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By AlB
As a 28 year old I'm stuck somewhere inbetween.

Going out and actually having fun as opposed to being in front of a TV all evening was great - getting caked in mud and dog turd on the school playing field during lunchtime whilst playing good old "British Bulldog".

But then, when it was raining there was that great contraption that took 30 minutes to get going - ZX Sinclair Spectrum!
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#8 Posted : 23 January 2006 13:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By gham
those where the days of survival of the fittest im sure the population of britain would be far greater if todays bureaucratic systems where inplace then.

I'm also sure that there are many families, like mine who have suffered a loss as a result of the very things mentioned above.

One thing they should have kept the same is Parent siding with the law..... there are a lost kids these days who have no repect because they know exactly what they can get a way with
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#9 Posted : 23 January 2006 13:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Talbot
I don't have kids, but I can tell you that my sister's hoard did all of the above and more.

Don't take the average newspaper column as your witness on children's lives today.

If you prohibit your kids from learning the hard way blame yourself, not others... but they might at least make it to our age if you instill "a little bit of common" (as my mom would always say).
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#10 Posted : 23 January 2006 15:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight
I remember as a sixteen year old going out and hitching to Glossop and back over the Peak District as a kind of short cut home :) Of course we had paedophiles then, what we didn't have was paedophiliaphobia. Happy days indeed, and as for spending all day from 5 in the morning until 10 at night (summers only of course) birdwatching with my 15 year old mates in the Peak District. And I agree with the stuff about risk taking and also self-knowledge and self-reliance,

John
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#11 Posted : 23 January 2006 15:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By IT
I remember when my older Brother and I walked bare foot through the country property and during the summer lifted fallen sheet of corrigated iron ,why to throw rocks at the 3-4 Tiger Snakes nestled underneath and running when they got annoyed at us .

I still remember manners as well and teach my kids the same .

IT
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#12 Posted : 23 January 2006 15:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH
IT
Not many tiger snakes in this country!!!! come to think of it not much sun either.
So as I sit here in my office, infront of my computer, not PC but hey, lets be risky, listening to my ipod Big Frank New York, or watching digital tv on this thing, I wonder, how far have we realy come?
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#13 Posted : 23 January 2006 15:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By GD
Those WERE the days, I remember lining up 12 kids side by side on their backs on the playing field, just so that I could launch my 50cc motorbike of the end of a 12" high ramp and over them. I did wear a crash hat though! Also remember going carol singing and my mate Kef had a home made lantern (glass bottle full of 2 star with a rag stuck in the top). Fortunately it was unlit when my other mate Col's dad confiscated it.
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#14 Posted : 23 January 2006 16:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graeme Main
In 1974 aged 12, I carried out my first Risk Assessment. The problem was a group of five of us including my younger brother were playing in a dumped car in the woods when someone through that setting fire to it was a good idea (we were all inside at the time) as we escaped the flames, someone caught the back of my brother foot taking his new trainer off. The risk to myself getting grounded for the rest of the summer (we were never hit) was to great so the only safe action was to throw the mate that caused the problem back into the car to recover the missing trainer, dangerous I can hear you saying but it wasn't I held the door closed with a bit of log to prevent myself from getting burnt until the trainer came out of the window quickly followed by him. We all laughed about it later and he went on to be a fireman so all in all a good result.
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#15 Posted : 23 January 2006 16:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jack
OK you've conviced me, h&s practitioners are incredibly sad. This has appeared at least twice before, but the saddest thing is the same people reply!
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#16 Posted : 23 January 2006 16:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Allen
Yes we did all those things and those that survived became what we are today – the lucky ones.

Never forget that in the 50s 60s and 70s child mortality rate from disease and all sorts of accidents was far higher than it is today. The safety precautions that certain tabloid newspapers like to label as “political correctness gone mad” have saved lives and continue to do so.

As an ex-inspector and an expert witness in civil cases I have investigated many accidents where children have been killed and injured in what had appeared to them to be “harmless play”.

Fortunately some respondents have spotted the flaw in the reasoning but I’m frankly disappointed that so many people are taken in by this rubbish. I too remember those who didn’t make it.

Little kids crawled under moving machinery once to tie the threads together – those were the good old days too.

Never forget there is a vested interest in this country in rubbishing health and safety.
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#17 Posted : 23 January 2006 16:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight
John,

I agree with what you say in summary, large sections of the media & the political classes have a hidden agenda on H&S, but much of what we are alluding to is not based on sound risk judgment. Kids crawling under machines and lax safety standards in playgrounds is one thing, but children not being allowed out to play for fear of the bogey-man is another. Offences against children were as common in the nineteen-sixties as they are now, but I was nonetheless allowed to go out and explore my environment. We don't yet know the long-term psychological effects of cosseting kids in the way parents do now, but we may have lost a key part of growing up by over-compensating for what is largely imagined peril. I know that there some kids still allowed out to play, but having just come back from Mexico it's striking by contrast how rarely we see children here without adult company.

Me, I'm just glad I grew up as I did with the freedoms I had,

John
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#18 Posted : 23 January 2006 16:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Blast ! even nostalgia ain't what it used to be
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#19 Posted : 23 January 2006 16:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Allen
John,

My posting was largely aimed at things which have made the environment physically safer for children ie seat belts, pelican crossings, rubber matting under swings, child proof caps and so on.

I do agree with you on the issue of the "bogeyman" on the street corner. It's interesting that the media has two apparently conflicting agendas. Whilst always ready to criticise safety precautions they are the first to stoke up public fears about paedophilia. Kids are at a bigger danger from their own parents than strangers.

Of course the last thing we can expect from the media is consistency.

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#20 Posted : 24 January 2006 08:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By IT
Jonathan,

That’s one thing I do like about the UK, NO Snakes (well maybe one), I don’t like the NO sun though :(

You should have guessed I was an Aussie when I identified that I worked with Worksafe Victoria as an Inspector and the fact I am a little outspoken.

I remember the days when you were able to do things without risk assessments like playing British Bulldog, risk assessments where meaningful and safety professionals were respected.
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#21 Posted : 24 January 2006 08:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Unfortunately I do remember when "the safety officer" was not in the least respected. It was a job reserved for those who were no good for anything else.

Put up a few posters, fill out the accident reports, don't ask questions and keep off my back !

Then retire quietly on your pension. We won't miss you and we may not even bother to replace you. Or your posters.
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#22 Posted : 24 January 2006 09:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH
IT,
I to will be an Inspector very soon, full time at least. ssh keep it quiet though, nearly everything in this country is blamed on H&S, can't wear flared jeans, tripping hazard within a school,TV presenter told not to sit on the back of a sofa, for health and safety reasons, on live TV, and guess what, he did and he fell off, that safety advisor was a phrophet.
Might go and get the other thread and revive that. Wait there and I will post it again.
Regards
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#23 Posted : 24 January 2006 09:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alison Melrose
After watching "Life on Mars" last night I can't say I miss the fashion from back then!

There was the local bobby though who would threaten to "tell yer mum" if you were misbehaving (for that read standing chatting to your mates rather than joy riding / breaking and entering / happy slapping that the kids seem to do these days!) AND they did know your Mum as they lived locally.

The summer holidays lasted for ever and the highlight was jumping head first off a 20ft stack of hay bales into a pile of straw then getting chased by the farmer! I still have the scar on my knee from a barb wired fence I tried to vault..

There were safety advertisements on the TV - Tufty crossing the road safely (along with the Green Cross Code man)and the kid in the quarry.

I remember wearing my Dad's firefighter outfit to the local gala. It June and the temperature was 26 degrees - I was about 9 years old. The boots were massive and the "slickers" heavy. The jacket almost reached the floor. The material has changed, the clothing is lighter and more efficient (though I doubt I'd make £35 from walking round the village these days!). We spent the money on fizz bombs / licorice lips and ...oooh, "Top Dec" cider (the rebel in me!).

My brother had a ZX Spectrum (but wouldn't let me play on it very often as I was a "girl" and that was a "boy" toy). I had my Sindy though and she was TOUGH! (she could abseil from the bedroom window better then Action Man).

The 70's and 80's were fun..children seemed a lot more "innocent" back then. Kids were brought up to respected their elders (today they are taught to speak their minds and many show little or no respect for anyone or anything). The PC brigade weren't around - I had a Golly Wog and nobody said it was wrong.

Back then the hospitals were clean (I don't recall MRSA!). The transport system is about the same though (there is still only one bus an hour to the village I stayed in - and it takes longer now!).
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#24 Posted : 24 January 2006 10:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster
And my time during the Summer Hols when a friend of my fathers's gave me a job in the lab of his chemical factory. The Chief Chemist smoked a pipe - all day, we brewed tea & coffee in lab beakers, chlorinated phenolics were washed out of flasks into the sink with acetone and benzene using bare hands (next to where we ate wonderful bacon butties), anything so nasty it could not be cleaned was dropped down an old well in the yard, HCl vapour was vented through a rubber hose dangling out of the window, I had to clean mercury used in stirrer seals by squeezing it - bare hands again - through a lab cloth and had a wee accident mouth pipetting 15N Caustic Soda into which a powerful germicide was dispersed.

Ahh those were the days. Never did me any harm. Now, what on earth was it I was supposed to be doing?
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#25 Posted : 24 January 2006 11:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte
If you had all this, walked everywhere, did everything that way, how come now your children don't. Where did *you* go wrong.

Did you get lazy? maybe as it is easier to drive round the corner, or leave your kids watching TV or playing computer games, maybe its easier to earn money by sueing companies than earning it yourselves, or leaving the teachers to bring up your children as you are too busy, and when they do a bad job you can then blame them too.

I don't think its the childrens fault at all.

Sits back to wait for numerous slanderous comments.
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#26 Posted : 24 January 2006 11:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By IT
When my one year old starts going to school he will probably have it knocked out of him, which is not for a while anyway, so I have at least another 3-4 years to give him some practical experience so he can become competent.

Probably get reported by the neighbors for child cruelty or something and when my daughter is born next Tuesday I will have a few more years before the rot sets in.

:))

Anyway you don’t have venomous snakes to play with so how can I teach them to throw rocks at snakes, sorry you have the adder (is that a rumor).


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#27 Posted : 24 January 2006 13:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alison Melrose
We now live in a media controlled fear climate...

Whenever Bush is struggling in the polls, cart out a tape from Osama (the bogeyman) and ramp up the fear of terrorism

Don't let your children play - fear of abduction, being sued (the lady who threw a snowball at her own kid, in her own garden being taken to court by the neighbour because it nearly hit their child a prime example).

When I was a kid, the news wasn't 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with hypothesis and dissection of each and every story. I watched Newsround with John Craven and wasn't asked to "e-mail my view on...". I wasn't ignorant but neither was the news immediate..if something happened in a foreign country, we'd hear about it a day later when it had become "sanitised". Now you get the blood, guts and gore live in your living room. Granted, kids today seem a lot more "worldly" - there was a sense of innocence back then that seems to be lost a lot earlier in life nowadays..

However, kids are a lot more confident in their abilities and are not afraid to question things..good luck to them!
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#28 Posted : 25 January 2006 13:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By James Perry
At 27 I think I just about come in under the radar.

I had play stations etc, but they were huge hunks of plastic that did nothing but beep and then crash.
I built go-carts with no brakes and sometimes even a real engine.
I was an expert with home made explosives and ignition devices, bonfires and forts, often combing all three which taught the importance of adequate egress and warning systems.
I played cowboys and indians with real guns (but heaven help me if I pointed even a toy gun at anyone [gun safety is high priority in a farming family!]).
I learned to drive at about the age of 12 and learned not to crash soon after as I was presented with a bucket of staples and a hammer to fix the fence I had totalled!
I learned through experience to avoid heavy and sharp objects that flew through the air.
The small scars on my hands form part of my education in that I know realise that pointy metal things are sharp and serve as a good visual reminder should I forget.
The larger scars prove that larger pointy metal things tend to have the same effect.
I learned quickly that large 4 legged creatures with horns were not to be tormented.
I know which end of a cow milk comes from and which part makes great eating.
I have paid for this education through the blood and sweat of the Rugby pitch, the cow yard and the end of the factory line.

Does this qualify me for an NVQ4? (as long as I can prove it all with the paperwork)

Jim
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