Posted By Arran Linton - Smith See today's (Sat 04-02-06): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion Is this good, bad or poorly balanced journalism?

Posted By Stephen D. Clarke I think there is an element of truth in the editorial. But I have found the HSE's recent software tools e.g MAC, slips/trips very useful. H&S paperwork in terms of risk/COSHH/Manual handling etc assessment is becoming more and more onerous and although useful at the start of a new job for formally detailing hazards/risks/controls but subsequently if truth be told assessments simply gather dust. In my experience some H&S advisors can be over zealous/officious/patronising. As a consequence the media have responded as one would expect.

Posted By Frank Hallett Jason Many of us will be able to relate to your frustration. Personally, I put it down to the fundamental conflict between making employers to be really responsible for those in their control and a substantial number of employers attempting to evade that responsibility at every opportunity. Frank Hallett

Posted By Andrew W I must say the majority of John's comments ring true with me. The HSE are quite famous in industry for the amazing gift of hindsight. Their ability to appear after a serious incident and lecture on what should have been done is breathtaking. I am aware that in a move to become a caring, sharing part of national bureaucracy they now wish to work directly with employers to improve relationships(well in our area anyway)but due to past history there is a huge element of distrust. However I do believe there is a place for the HSE as without the threat of the "Factory Inspector" turning up at the door H+S in the workplace could take a huge step backwards. If crime levels were down to zero in the country does this mean there would be no need for a police force? I think not

Posted By Raymond Rapp Personally I have never believed in self regulation, goal-setting etc. I firmly believe that the law and enforcement are the only 'incentives' that organisations will take notice of. Sad..but that is reality. Ray

Posted By Brett Day Not sure what the HSE have to do with CRB checks ?? Also having worked on LUL I'm not surprised that a train is held for the police to deal with drunks given the number of attacks on staff by - you've guessed it DRUNKS !!! There are certain things that really hack me off about the HSE - i.e. not pursuing clients under CDM despite clear breaches, but overall would say that they do more good than harm. Wish I could say the same about soome gvt agencies I've dealt with.

Posted By Robert K Lewis This article I presume arises out of the activity which also prompted the article given massive treatment in the Express on Saturday. In this article operatives could not use the normal means of access, vehicle equipped with manriding hoist, to change streelight bulbs as the streets were too narrow and steep. Public outcry was then promoted by local councillors because they would not simply use a ladder!! The fact that the contractor has a skilled and trained workforce who recognised the hazards was lost in the generated heat. This article, for me, merely builds on what has been brewing for some time. It rather surprises me though that a supporter of the new political third way enterprise has entered in this way. I do sometimes see the ill-judged activities by some inspectors. I think the issue is at heart the problem of any enforcer who also acts as auditor/advisor/assistance etc in addition to the enforcement role. The mindset required is different for this latter role. One has to question whether the problem is fundamentally one of over-government, in that they are constantly requiring the HSE to undertake progressively more intrusive and non-enforcement activities without increasing budgets and staff levels thus stretching the competencies of inspectors to their limits. Inspectors can be very good enforcers and weaker at the other activities, or vice versa, but the two together in one inspector is a rare occurrence. Perhaps there is a case for segregation of the activities but I would fear the loss of the enforcer activity. We have seen the need for such inspectors for more than 150 years. Experience tells us that there will always be a sizeable rump of poor employers who will risk the lives of others, so we cannot let our guard down. Bob

Posted By IT Must agree Robert and Adrian. IT

Posted By Adrian Watson Bob, I agree that local government would need more funding and more resources, but many if not most of these places are already inspected by LA's for other purposes. Wasn't one of the purposes behind the HSWA, to get rid of multiple inspection agencies inspecting the same premises? Having regard to the fact that 85% of the 1.2 Million companies in the UK employ less than 10 people, and around 50% of these are HSE enforced, how can HSE visit the smaller premises to enforce the law? The simple answer is they don't! I have visited many premises where HSE's first visit is after an accident; is that a proactive approach? However, whilst LA's may not get to inspect all premises every year they will at least know where they are as they are local to them, and be able to visit some of them before an accident or ill-health is reported. Maybe HSL is too specialised, but they carry out industry based research, but they are better placed to develop best practice advice. I do agree that HSE inspectors need more and training ... but that is another discussion. Regards Adrian

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith When I raised this question, I felt that the original articles in the Daily Telegraph had raised some interesting questions; unfortunately the editorial comments greatly shortened the opportunity for their journalist to explore this subject. I felt that this story might have been badly reported simply because the editorial team appeared to be looking for a quick closure for Saturday’s addition of the paper. If the press wish to frequently stray into our professional area, perhaps they should now be consulting good safety and health knowledge before publication, just as they would do with other legal or scientific stories. I am aware that this thread has wondered from my intended question, however I am happy with the secondary issues that are currently being discussed.

Posted By John Murgatroyd The police in the workplace ? Yeah, right. Put the police on the average building site and they'd be lucky to get off it ! Risk assessment the way forward...not. Universally ignored, is what risk assessments are. Paperwork to cover eventualities and backsides: "not my fault guv...it's dem fick blokes we 'ave to get" It is TOTALLY USELESS to have REGULATIONS without ENFORCEMENT. Enough employers ignore HSAWA as it is, remove the regulation of H&S and you remove the reason for it existing....VERY few employers will bother with H&S if they don't have to, and practically none of the SME businesses will bother, not that a large percentage do anyway. LAs' ? They cannot even manage to inspect places serving food, let alone factories, they spend most of their time looking for breaches of planning law...

Posted By Robert K Lewis John M as usual reflects the trenchant views one often encounters and we need to be aware that such ideas are a reality. The HSE needs to be the enforcer OR the adviser/auditor. Too often it falls between stools. The Telegraph, albeit with Redtop language, has placed a firm finger on the pulse of public disquiet. The HSE is being criticised for a seeming lack of ability to bring miscreant companies to book when they kill people and yet at the same time prevent the joys of streetlighting being enjoyed by all. The Risk Debate highlighted the lack of connection in a very real way. The Public is concerned about risk and yet they shunned the open debate, although it was online. Will we see some roadshow meetings not packed by professionals? I seriously doubt this but the public does have a view and we do hear it reflected in the press. Perhaps I should, as devil's advocate, shift my ground a little, and say it was a good piece of journalistic insight supported by errant ideas and facts! For myself I would simply split the HSE to create a separated enforcement arm and a management support/audit function that would also audit the enforcement performance in a similar manner to the NAO role within parliament. Bob