Posted By Nigel Souster I have just booked an external company to come onto our premises and train some of our staff in the correct use of fire extinguishers. This would be for tackling a fire that may be blocking an exit from the building, not for fire fighting to save products, machinery etc. We intend continue this training on a regular basis, and I was wondering if there was a training course out there that could teach me to conduct the training myself? I hold the Nebosh General Certificate, so I know the main basics of fire fighting, albeit on a small scale. Would this be seen as enough for suitable and sufficient training? I hope some body out there can help, Regards, Nigel.

Posted By Kevin Benson Hi Nigel, Thats brilliant mate, be sure to document and review along with fire evac. Kevin

Posted By Brett Day Not exactly rocket science ???? Foam needs to aimed at a wall to the side of the fire or in front so it can 'foam', have seen water used in a panic on oil 'BOOM' when it hits the fan most people panic or suffer the have a go hero syndrome. Training does help give a better idea, after all it is one thing to post glibly 1.2.3. on the forum but being faced with a fire and having to use it in anger is very different !! Try talking to your local fire service, many offer a F/X course they also do a 'trainer' course you do it and then train your staff. Personally I prefer the training that fire services offer as most actually will have a fire that can be tackled in a safe controlled environment as opposed to many F/X companies that come to the client where the training is just about letting the extinguisher off in the car park. Not sure where you are based but Essex Fire & Rescue Service did some very good fire marshall & F/X training. I hope that's of help.

Posted By TBC With the new reformed Fire Safety Order you will have to think about preventing the spread of fires and business continuity as well as other things. So putting out small fires will be crucial in this. So train thoroughly when you do it.

Posted By Salus Nigel, if your building fire risk assessment has identified that you need fire extinquishers to fight a fire because the amount and position of fire exits is not adeqaute then |i would consider installing another exit. try to prevent fire in the first place. there is realy no need to train employees in the use of fire extinquishers, just ensure they can get out quickly and safely. Ask for volunteer fire marshals,train them to do what you want, test your fire alarm on a weekly basis, hold two practise evacs a year and record these events,good housekeeping and a procedure for reporting and maintaining faults with any plant / equipment in the building is a good idea. Carry out an inspection of your premises, look at what can catch fire and how, then take away the ignition sources.

Posted By Nigel Souster Thanks for all your comments. As I said previously, one reason for training our staff is in case an exit is blocked by fire, but the main reason is that our insurance company stipulates in our policy that staff should undergo training to tackle small fires. Personally I shall be telling them to use an extinguisher as a last resort to exit a building, and leave the fire fighting to the men in the yellow hats!

Posted By Ron Young I disagree with the last post and here's my reason. I come from a RN background and one of the things we were good at was in training ships crews to fight fires. The normal routine was a 2 or 3 day intensive course on all aspects of fire culminating in a very large full scale exercise every time you changed ship. Great stuff, realistic and very hard work but as we couldn't phone the fire brigade when we were at sea, it was necessary to have a well trained workforce. We don't often have this problem in the civvy world and unless you work in a highly dangerous environment or another need is identified, there is no real need to train personnel in the use of fire extinguishers or to fight fires. By implication, if we train in the use, are we then expecting staff to use them for real? Is there not a real risk of making the situation worse when a person with "basic" training attempts to fight a real fire in a situation quite different from any controlled outdoor training environment. Panic sets in and you find yourself making wrong decisions potentially allowing a small contained fire to get out of hand and become a raging inferno in a matter of minutes. Is it not better to contain the fire, raise the alarm and get yourself and everyone else out safely. Most fire evac plans say "do not attempt to fight a fire unless it is safe to do so". How do you know when it IS safe to fight a fire? Is it ever safe? The initial poster of this thread said that he would only expect staff to use an extinguisher to aid escape. To me this is also flawed. If rather than spending time training staff how to use a fire extinguisher, he put in systems to ensure flammable materials (including paper) were properly stored, walkways were kept clear and escape routes including fire doors were properly maintained, there should be no need to fight your way out of a fire. I believe that actual fire only kills around 2% of the total fatalities in a burning building, the other 98% are killed by smoke which is often toxic. how do you know that that small fire your fighting isn't giving off toxic fume? I think I'm correct when I say there can be more than 20 toxic substances given off when a PC monitor goes up in flames. Another thought, the fire brigade attend fires to save lives, what is the reason behind a member of staff fighting a small fire (safely)? and how many time do you see a fireman fighting a fire with a fire extinguisher? so why should you! I've based my action plan on what I've seen, what I've read and how I've been trained, you will do likewise. Good luck

Posted By Allan Kerrigan What about arson? It kills two people a week, and costs 25 million a week. The reasonong behind fire extinguishers is that is stops a small fire becoming a big fire. In five minutes a fire goes fro nought dgrees to nearlu 1000 degrees.

Posted By Jasonjg I remember going back a few years when talking to a bunch of fire fighters on this very subject when taking the kids to a fire station display. Here were their thoughts and this included the thoughts of the senior personnel: - They do not openly discourage people to attempt to use an extinguisher on a small fire. They just want persons to ensure that the fire brigade has been notified of the fire in all cases and not just the internal notification system. I.e. someone must raise the alarm & the company must inform the brigade whether or not they decide to tackle small fires themselves. The thing with extinguishers is the fact they can give the false sense of security until it come to the point of pulling out the pin which believe it or not, can prove very difficult to the untrained person as stated earlier. There has now been such devices that will automatically send a signal to the brigade i.e. fire hoses. These have proven to be quite successful unless of course employees are unaware of such things and then use the hose to wash down spills in the workplace only to wonder why a bunch of angry firemen are staring at them when they pull up at the gates. (That was me in the past and it cost my boss £200 for time wasting after which our he made sure we all knew the system inside out) Each case has to be assessed and employees should be informed as to the use of an extinguishers as well as when not to attempt to fight a fire. The overall importance of such training is to ensure that not only has an internal alarm been raised but also contact has been made with the appropriate fire brigade in case things start to get out of control. If this cannot be achieved safely through remoteness of any communication systems or procedures then each person should be informed to evacuate under all circumstances except in the most trivial. What is quite surprising is the fact that this need to raise the alarm to the authorities has been diluted into only raising internal alarms and this is where the real problems begin to occur. They went on to say that they have seen many PowerPoint’s, training docs and consultant reports that still fail to stress this factor.

Posted By Steve Cartwright Hi Nigel What I was trying to say is that you do not need external trainers for everything you do. Providing you document whats in your training, who has done the training and get trainees to sign to confirm they have received the training. Fire extinguishers are meant to be idiot proof. Point and press basically. Like I said in an earlier post the instructions are on the label, they tell you what class of fire they are for and what rating they are. I have read all the responses on this subject and was quite suprised by some of the different views i.e. spraying foam on a wall to the side or in front. Thats a new one. P.S. I do know what I'm talking about as I also maintain fire extinguishers. If you need any more information I will gladly give it, but there may be a charge. Regards Steve

Posted By J. Robin Gatenby Hi Nigel Try your local Fire Service - I know that a number of brigades run a good "train the triner" course, including my local service Buckinghamshire - if you are anywhere near Aylesbury or Milton Keynes give them a ring - 01296 717420 or try http://www.bucksfire.gov.uk/courses/ictu_frame.asp Regards Robin