Posted By Robert K Lewis Dave I feel that the 666 part of your nick is showing a little - but that is not a criticism. This subject rouses strong feelings in most people and CSCS has become a mantra to cure all ills with secularists repeating it almost as a prayer. I personally put my faith in the Rosary or Chaplet of Divine Mercy but that is another issue. We are not going to protect our workforce from harm by simple application of the CSCS test in spite of the pressures exerted by the MCG, HSE et al. Is a Buyer/Purchasing officer who is escorted at all times on site safer because he/she holds the relevant colour CSCS card? Is a Contract Manager with a NEBOSH Certificate in Construction better at his safety role because of his CSCS card? I let others answer these questions. Bob

Posted By Paul Bellis Just carry on and do it -you dont have to be accredited anymore -just competent the company may get a spot check /vetted to ensure the training htey provided was adequate as long as they are paying thier levvy that is -they just ut in a claim. The rules changed recently. Paul

Posted By Dave McIness Paul What do you mean by "The rules changed recently". Could you let me know what has changed and which courses any competent person can effectively deliver. Many thanks Dave McIness

Posted By Stuart Mallett Forgot to say. from an earlier thread, the training grant goes to you not the trainer if you pay the levy.

Posted By Paul Bellis You can provide any course ie working at height, cosshh manual handling etc over 1/2 day as long as you are competent in that area -you dont need to be approved by CITB you cannot do the SMSTS as this is more strictly controlled as noted in a previous post....its just the 1/2 day type coures you can do Paul

Posted By Alan Spiers I started a thead concerning passports last June, which again receiced much debate. Competence confirmation and skill cards will always overlap because how you attempt to demonstrate competence varies from trade to trade. However H&S core sylabus in INDG381 is rarly understood resulting in requests for a particular passport. IOSH working safely covers that same core sylabus. So any delegate with confirmation to INDG381 only needs 'topping up' with specific hazards and site induction. I was in correspondence with IOSH and EEF heads regarding 20 plus passport schemes and the problem of organisations requiring a specific one, resulting in people attending several to be accepted, both agreed to loby HSE to make it clearer by referring to their leaflet. I have not seen any action but urge H&S professionals to clarify with site or business managers that INGD381 core sylabus is what they are looking for, not a specific name. Also that any of these do not reduce the need for induction as there is an approach if you've got passport get on with it.

Posted By Stuart Mallett The H&S syllabus for the dreaded touch screen test is the same for most other skillcards and I know some senior people have evacuated themselves over doing it. However easy a H&S practitioner finds it is not really the point. I run SMSTS courses which were an exemption for the test, but within the rules I had to take it. The point of a cscs card is to prove that you are judged competent in your trade, the H&S test is better than nothing, which is what we would get with some contractors. I admit there is disparity between qualifications and card levels but you should remember that the level is based in NVQ managementlevels not management of H&S. So if you have a MSc in OHS management but do not manage several persons and look after a large budget then you only have the requisite level card. I wish I had a quid for everyone in our organisation who threw the teddy out the pram cos "he's got a platinum one why is mine only gold!" Because some of us have the requisite management responsibilities and others not. Interestingly enough I know IOSH has been invited to cross map all levels of qualification and management levels for all those with above NVQ level qualifications, as have all other mainstream institutions, how far have we got?

Posted By Paul Bellis yes

Posted By Bill Fisher One point that is generally missed in these arguements is what both cards are about. In simple terms the ECITB Safety Passport is about Awareness, whilst CSCS/CISRS is about Skill Competency. Quite a difference. The other aspect is that CMIOSH shows we are competent in 'general' terms but doesn't make us competent for all industries - we need to ensure the focus on the industry of choice. Bill

Posted By Malcolm Fryer Hello all An associated thread continues @ http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...nse&Forum=1&Thread=18464 I hope you find this of assistance. Malcolm

Posted By Malcolm Fryer Hello to all I would not disagree with Safety Sam2above in that some of this work will have provided a degree of improvement but it is clear that there is great confusion and frustration out there. Looking through the earlier posts I came across the following link regarding SAMSTS and note that there were no replies. http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...=1&thread=18000&page=301 Regards to you all Malcolm