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Posted By The toecap
Can i ask a general question? Yes, okay.
What do You safety profesionals do about long term subbies? I mean the ones who are virtually an employee in respect of the length of time you've used them.
Do you involve them in your in-house training. Do they ask for the loss of pay? Do you record their accidents on your statistics?
Help me out please. Any ideas.
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Posted By paul harman
Hi
I have a similar problem but have a made a decision to include long term subbies in our training plan. We pay fro the courses but insist that they provide their time free of charge. This seems to work ok at the moment. I also include only the RIDDOR reportable figures from them in our accident figures but ensure that the report identifies that they are a subcontractor. Hope this helps
Paul
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Firstly to clear the definition issue Unless these people are employed by a contractor who is under contract to you they are not subcontractors but Contractors. If they are employed by a contractor the comments I make need to be viewed in the light of the distanced relationship.
All matters should be dealt with under the contract of employment via their employer. This can normally include all training, PPE issues, Time Off with and without pay etc. Certainly they should normally be recorded in your statistics. I know that many like to separate the accident records because the contractors do the more risky work! Thus they have accidents and make our statisitics worse than they need be. The contrary view is that they should be totally included as they are undertaking work an employee would do on our behalf.
Bob
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Posted By Merv Newman
The "good" employers include contractors and sub contractors in their training programmes and accident statistics. Only separating them for legal reasons. Training time is calculated into the contract price.
Actual employer is responsible for PPE and basic safety training (cleaning staff need coshh training for example) but I have always invited "live-in" contract employees to every relevant safety/health training programme. They don't usually need confined space training (usually) but should it happen that they do, then I do it. But if, for example, we are providing manual handling training, then they are expected to participate.
Merv
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Posted By Ashley Williams
Is a long term subbie now covered by IR35 and is infact an employee?
Ash
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Ashley
No because they are not contractors to you - see my reply above.
Subcontractor has a specific meaning
Bob
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Posted By John Lewis
I have always found it best to treat Contractors in the same manner as our own folk. This ensures that they have exactly the same training as the direct workforce, removing any doubts about how things should be done.
A by product is that if you treat them fairly they become quite attached to the host and are arguably less likely to do the wrong thing. Involve them in everything you can, including your accident figures. Only by analysing their accidents can you work out how to prevent a repeat.
Best Regards
John
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Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH
Are the contractors employed or self employed? how do you induct staff? if long term contractors how are they inducted?
Duty of care to own and others.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Once had the (american) safety auditors come for their annual visit. Auditor wanted to talk to people to judge their training. She just happened to pick an agency worker and asked him at length about lock-out procedures. Word perfect and with a practical demonstration.
We got an "excellent" rating. Joe got free coffee for life.
Merv
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