Posted By Merv Newman There are a number of levels of "experts" posting to this forum There are the less experienced desparatley trying to do their jobs and are looking for help. These people get all the help I can offer. There are those who are looking for a free ride : "RA on baby sitting, any one ?" these do not get a reply. Or they get a "snooty" response And then there are the real Experts, with years of experience (and qualifications) who have the knowledge to help. And remember, please, that consultants get paid for offering their advice and knowledge to their clients. (OK, maybe more than one client pays for the same advice - its a bit like prostitution - you have something to sell, you sell it and you've still got it) There are lots of experts out there, many of them more expert than me. (only 30 years in the business) who give their advice for free. We each make our own judgements as to whom we give our advice to. So please don't complain if , occasionally, I seem a bit snooty. Love Merv

Posted By Richie P Winter, No, There are not too many 'experts' posting onto the forum. There can never be too many as one of the reasons for this open forum is for the public to access information/advice, iaw IOSH'charitable Status. Snooty responses are indeed polite, and I can sense a little of the frustration born by seasoned SHE professionals in dealing with some of the more trivial requests. I believe some of the frustration is caused by the age old problem that once you know something, there is a strong urge to think everyone knows it. If you use some knowlege regularly it becomes second nature and thus 'obvious'. Frustration then sets in. As Merv said earlier, most professionals simply turn a blind eye to posts that are so obvious as not to deserve a reply, especially when the information is extremly easy to access on websites such as the HSE and DTI. It is however edging towards the un-professional to ridicule or insult the originator of the post, especially if the replyer is a seasoned SHE professional. Regardless of the level of education or experience, I cannot think of an instance where rudeness could be seen in a positive light or as providing any benefit to anyone. Richie

Posted By Richard Spencer There are sufficient experts that contribute and or read the various threads on this chat forum. There are also a number of subscribers who genuinely want advice and therefore a need is created. A positive contribution I suggest is a new topic called Safety HELPLINE. If a person is seeking advice from a consultant then there needs to be a facility that enables a ‘win, win outcome. That is to say, a method of payment such as a credit card system could be introduced that would reward the provider of advice with some stipend for the advise so provided. The seeker of advice would then benefit from having advice and access to the expert for an agreed fee. Thus in a free ‘user pays’ society both the provider and the seeker of knowledge both benefit in a meaningful manner and in so doing advance the profession. I believe this solution looks behind the reason this issue is being discussed and is a possible solution. Incidentally, this advice is provided free for the benefit of the profession and is entirely altruistic. Richard

Posted By Steve Cartwright P Winter How would you define an expert. Remember there have been a few so called experts who have given evidence in a court of law which was later found to be inaccurate. I would be very wary of anyone who said they were an expert. I prefer to use the term competent. As for the pompous and patronising replies, yes I have been guilty in the past, especially if someone is asking for a risk assessment on hole punching paper or making a cup of tea. Remember these types of requests reflect badly on us all. We have a hard enough job as it is convincing employers to invest in H&S especially with all the bad publicity our industry gets. The last thing we need are a load of jobsworths giving us a bad name. I worked for one company where the previous H&S Advisor made them put H&S Law posters in every office, there was about 30 posted around the site. Regards Steve

Posted By Merv Newman I keep coming back to this thread. Must touch a sensitive spot. Twice in my life as a consultant (since 1989) I have come across totally incompetent safety people. Maybe three if I count the guy who was 100% legislation - "That is the law, so do as I tell you you must" His site was pretty good (i have trouble comparing UK stats with EU stats) but they had less than 1% of the workforce suffering LTIs per year compared to the average of 5%. and he was already on his way out to be replaced by a more practical guy. So, again, there are many levels of "competence" The trained but inexperienced, the untrained but motivated, the trained and unconscient. Whatever the level of training or experience I prefer to work, and help, the motivated. Hey, this is charity, ain't it ? and what is IOSH but a charitable organisation dedicated to help improve the health and safety of employed persons (and not necessarily to help/ease the life of safety people) innit ? Discuss Dinner is on the go - 6 hour lamb with garlic, onions, chicken stock, turnips, parsnips, broccolli and bisto. And a bottle of beaujolais. Discuss Merv

Posted By J Knight While I agree with the general trend of this thread, I do wonder if sometimes the perceived 'snottiness' (I'm sorry I have a cold) is to do with just giving a quick off-the cuff no-frills answer to a simple question? Or maybe I just don't read the threads where people are snotty. Certainly, in agreement with Steve, I do consider myself an adviser and giving advice on these threads helps me keep my knowledge refreshed, and also makes me check it sometimes before offering it. I might feel differently about people I know to be consultants using freely given info to make money, but any genuine enquiry is grist to my mill. Chateau Margaux is surely a tad pricey just for Sunday dinner? But then, being veggy I never have to match anything to garlic roast lamb and can usually get away with a nice Gewurztraminer, John

Posted By IT Some interesting points and discussion, I am NO Expert, but I am willing to contribute my limited knowledge where I can. So what if a person is an Consultant ,yes its your sweat and tears that has gone into developing the procedures, policy or presentation, should you not be satisfied that the message you developed and honed has been shared and contributes to improving workplace Health and Safety. Are you not in fact mentoring others and sharing your knowledge with like minded professionals, after all you are one person and you can not get your message out alone can you? Innovations in safety that can prevent injury are freely shared, but when it comes to paperwork or presentations, no way I did this go find your own you might get paid for my work. Money is important but pier recognition is also important, mostly it’s about Safety and health, that’s what we do isn't it? Penfold Bin 389 (Red) Thai beef Salad

Posted By Fred Pratley A North (UK) country expression goes "if thee's got nowt good to say, then say nowt" & a boss told me (many years ago)"criticism is welcome - provided its constructive". I tend to apply both principles before responding to any threads on this forum. Oh yes, the Blaster Bates' version I have is "X"= an unknown quantity and spurt= drip under pressure, much the same as Paul's definition, so I guess that makes me something of a specialist...............? Fred