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Posted By Anthony Morrison
During a routine CSCS audit I discovered that CSCS have created a new Black EM Managers card "Construction Health and Safety Senior Manager".
I called CSCS for further information as I had never heard of this card and it certainly was not available when I obtained Platinum Construction Health and Safety Managers card.
CSCS inform me that this card has been available since 01-08-06 and that industry accreditation closed on 23-12-05. I sure you will agree that is an unusually short period of time for industry accreditation, other cards are normally a one year period for accreditation.
CSCS proceeded to inform me that to obtain this card I would have to complete an NVQ level 5 in Health & Safety, no other qualification is acceptable it must be NVQ level 5.
As an experienced chartered health & safety practitioner with a BSc in Construction Management and an MSc in Health & Safety together with experience of managing multimillion-pound projects I do not feel that I must now complete an NVQ to get recognition by CSCS.
This brings me to another point why is it that full members of IOSH must be subjected to the obligatory two minutes silence touch screen test to obtain a CSCS card. Are IOSH not the industry recognised body specialising in health & safety matters.
It appears this is not the case as far as CSCS are concerned especially when members of other organisations (e.g. CIOB) can go down the professional members route whilst IOSH members are not extended the same courtesy. When will IOSH address this issue with CSCS?
In summary has anybody come across this new card?
Are employers now asking for the Black card in place of the Platinum card?
Has the Platinum card been devalued by the introduction of the new Black EM card?
Comments welcome.
Anthony
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
Hi
The NVQ 5 is more office based as it is not a "H&S practitioner" qualification. It will get you 20 CPD points but not the CMIOSH designation (prior to to shake up). You can get the NVQ 5 without undertaking the Level 4 or equivalent, which could mean that a Platinum card holder knows more about practising H&S than a black card holder.
So don't think the platinum card will be devalued as a result. Provided everyone knows what it stands for - now there's the problem!
Regards
Linda.
SHE Knows
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
You mean bearing in mind that the cscs card scheme is widely regarded in the industry (construction) as a joke ?
Or that most consider it a careers-for-life scam by the people who thought it up and run it ?
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Posted By RP
If I complete 60 hours of touch screen test will this give me 20 hours CPD based upon a 2 min test.
Of course you have to do the test, they need the money to offset the grant scheme...
If I am asked for a CSCS card, I will go home and read H and S publications for the rest of the day (oh..and close the site)
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Posted By p winter
Interesting to hear of new CSCS card - I hold the platinum card Construction H&S manager - but just to agree with a previous poster the scheme is a complete joke and will not stop people getting hurt.
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Posted By Stuey
To all knockers of CSCS, please remember that this is a "public" forum and as such is "on show" to anyone who cares to read it. As Highly educated practitioners, it is strange how so many want to rubbish a system which is at least trying to improve the appalling safety record found in construction. I do feel sorry for those who are on the fringes of the industry, and have to fall in line with the scheme.
I have posted elsewhere in these forums on the subject of CSCS. Most people who post about it clearly are deluding themselves that it is about H&S and is a status badge to be collected and paraded as a sign of some kind of one-up-person-ship.
GET THIS! It is about trade designation (showing that you are competent to do your stated job) and level of Managership, the H&S test has been tacked on the end because Johnny 2 jags(2 jabs?) said if the construction industry doesnt sort itself out, he would and they had to do SOMETHING.
The grant comes from a levy charged to anyone under the scope of the CITB and is valued on payroll(for some companies hundreds of thousands of pounds annually). The grant scheme lets participating levy payers get a small amount back! so it doesnt come from the test (which incidently is run by a firm called PROMETRIC).
If you wish to come up with another, better answer to the "cowboy contractor" problem, please feel free to discuss with the CITB, but please be constructive not destructive in your public comments.
Rant over, thank you.
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Posted By Stuey
BTW Anthony I presume that with that industry accreditation period, it was DR.Who that had the card?
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Posted By RP
But, But...
I know of contractors who will book their employees onto the test, give them the book to mug-up, do the test (fail) do again (pass) and then divorce themselves from any further H and S obligation toward employees. You passed the test, you should have known better. It is this area which needs tightening up. I ask questions and recieve varied responses using the book to confirm understanding of H and S on-site. Yes, we need a scheme to ensure that contractors and others are appropriatly trained, etc, but we also need to use comon sence when a safety practitioner holds qualifications which took up to 3 years to get and a lot of effort, then to maintain it. I have no problems doing a test, but when they tell me to use that seat to do the test and be careful because it is broken, well????
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
Hi folks.
I apologise if this has been said elsewhere, but just in case it hasn't.
Health & Safety Test (CSCS/CPCS) reduced to £17.50
The following are extracts from a CITB press release on http:/www.citb.co.uk/news/default.htm quoting Peter Loban:
"I'm pleased to announce a reduction in the price of the Construction Health and Safety Test. Following a series of negotiations with the test supplier and a review of internal processes, the price will be cut from £35 to £17.50 from 4 April 2005..."
As part of the organisation's commitment to continuous improvement, a revised Construction Health and Safety Test will be introduced in April 2005. After close consultation with industry representatives, CITB-ConstructionSkills has further developed and revised the Test to represent recent changes in legislation. Simplified language has been used to ensure that it examines understanding of health and safety issues rather than English language.
The updated Test will be supported by an improved booking service, a wider range of support materials, voiceovers in a range of languages and an updated question bank. There will be a significant increase in the number of mobile test centres so that testing can be taken direct to a contractor's site or training premises.
The reduction in the price of the Test improves accessibility to those groups who wouldn't normally claim CITB Grant - employers out of scope toCITB-ConstructionSkills and individuals not linked to an employer."
Linda
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
I'll have to go carefully here, since my previous post was considered [nearly] libellous, nearly insulting, against the site rules (etc) and removed.
However.
As long as the arrangements that exist at the moment do not harm others NOT in the [construction] industry and NOT working on site
then I'll say no more. However, there is a lobby existing within the construction industry that considers that anything that's made OFF site, but is going to be taken ONTO a site, should be made by people who possess a cscs card. That would extend the "reach" of the controlling mandarins to virtually every other industry existing in the country. A totally ridiculous situation, where one supposes every van driver would also have to have a cscs card to actually drive onto the site.
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Posted By Malcolm Fryer
Hello all
I am a bit of a late poster on this subject but would have to state that I have always personally found all the different card colours associated with the different trades to be overwhelming.
As a professional I personally found it confusing, as an advisor I often found it impossible to explain to those seeking advice as they thought the scheme to be bureaucratic and failed to see the logic behind it. Previously being heavily involved in the repair of construction equipment there is another problem in that the industry is confused with the difference between CSCS and CPCS which has another rake of cards. One is a skills card and one is a competence card.
There is still great confusion within the construction sector and much pent up frustration probably more akin to those felt by John M (who has had to temper his posting). I would say that the profession ignore this pent up feeling at their peril, there are many who view CSCS, CPCS and any number of passport schemes as being at the bonkers conkers end of the scale.
I take it that you all have read the letter from Keith Laws in this month’s THSP on page 23.
Malcolm
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