Posted By dave burrage Work needs to be carried out on top of an internal roof with no edge protection or other means to prevent a fall. The roof is approx 8m above the concrete floor of the workshop and the work will take approximately 2 hours. Has anybody had any experience of applying the 'work which is of such short duration' criteria to the need to provide edge protection rather than simply using fall arrest devices? My own opinion is that the heirarchy is; a. avoid work at height (can't, only way to do this work) b. prevent fall by edge protection etc c. prevent degree of injury or distance of fall by suitable means. there is some discussion as to the need to provide edge protection when the work is a one-off 2 hour job which will only be repeated every 2 months or so. we cannot fit permanent edge protection as the overhead crane travels over the roof (we have the LOTO procedure in place for the crane). tks for any info you can provide

Posted By Steve Kirk Hire of a MEWP or cherry picker would seem like a sensible option.

Posted By Martin Keeler I agree it's not short duration. The HSE advise work up to a maximum of 30 minutes is shortish duration. May I suggest a possible running line which operatives can clip onto with the appropriate harness and lanyard.

Posted By Gary L You stated that you can't have permanent barriers, could you install temporary barriers instead? If you can't provide physical measures to prevent a person falling then you could consider using a full body harness attached to a suitably anchored system that incorporates some form of energy absorber. This at least ensures that if a person falls, they are safely arrested. In the past we've used either a single lanyard or a retractable type fall arrester attached to a fixed anchorage point. Or, a lanyard attached to a horizontal flexible anchorage line. Regards, Gary

Posted By Daniel Stonehouse I am intrigued to know exactly what task is being carried out every two months. Could this be one of those that might streeeeetch out to more than two hours on occassions? I presume that you have some procedure in place for isolating the overhead crane when this work is being carried out.

Posted By Derek Holt Agree not short duration as stated above. How many people will this work involve? what is the job? Temporary barriers would still be a risk for those placing and removing them each time who themselves would probably require restraint equipment. Therefore dependent upon the number of people and actual task a fall restraint system may be the most applicable solution, not a fall arrest system. The above assumes the roof is not classed as fragile. Collapsible barriers are used on vehicles but I have not come across any for buildings. If you need info on suitable restraint systems email.

Posted By David Tilsley-Curtis Dave I have an idea that the temporary or portable man anchor we have, could possibly do the job for you. The issues of how your man gets on the roof in the first place, could be important. If you could let us know I shall send you details of the anchor directly. David

Posted By dave burrage Thanks for all the comments and information. The main concerns with this are the initial access, (8m up an extending ladder) and protecting them from falling whilst working on the roof. A number of options have been put on the table including fixing eyebolts to the outside wall and running scaffold through these to the floor, then using these to support scaffold horizontal poles. thereby forming a fixed handrail for the work. My concern with this is the access and work at height needed to put this in place may present more risk than the original work did. However, i am not a professional scaffolder so will wait for their comments. Anybody who has been on a ship will probably be familiar with collapsing handrails used on gangways. These could be the longer term solution and would reduce the risk to the access, once the workers are on the roof they lift up the handrails which lock into position for the duration of the work. Thanks again for comments and thoughts, much appreciated. There are no bus bar, fragile roof or other hazards present. Crane is to be LOTO'd as stated originally.

Posted By Brett Day Derek, am not adverse to posters syaing that there is a product available so please conatct me for further info. But sending stuff unsolicted I would strongly second your comments, have too much stuff sent to me (mostly by agecies) who have got my details via the IOSH website.

Posted By Martin R. Bessant Derek has asked a question about firms mentioning products on this thread. The IOSH rules are that no product can be advertised as a new thread but if it is helpful to an enquiry, minimal information can be given in a response. The response given on this posting is perfectly acceptable as information has been sent privately to an individual and only an offer of help with contact details has been provided on this forum. I hope this clarifies the situation, but I can assure all users that all the forums are monitored by the Moderating Team several times each day. Martin Bessant - Lead Moderator.

Posted By Derek Holt Dave, Your answers provide a clearer picture of the task. As the building is inside, although size of hole unknown, does it need to be covered, avoid the risk completely? If it does can it not be done from within the building, minimising the risk? You indicate that this work will be undertaken every 2 months, what is the purpose of the hole? If this activity can not be avoided or minimised as above and considering it is within 2m of the edge then folding barriers would not suffice for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post plus the base supports may also interfere with the proximity of the hole. If the hole is within 2m of the edge then is it accessable by using a MEWP or scaffold tower to gain access? This would also resolve your original access issue. We must also consider that the issue is not just falling off the edge of the bulding but also down the hole that is being covered. In this instance if all of the above are non starters for some reason and PPE has to then be considered, as per my previous, it would have to be restraint as it is not acceptable whilst working on a roof to accept that a fall can occur (fall arrest equipment)due to the numerous other hazards relating to the eqpt, fall distances, objects that could be impacted with etc. In using restraint equipment for this task careful considertaion would have to be given to the anchorage and design of the system so as to ensure that there is no posibility the persons can either fall down the hole or of any side of the roof area. Martin, Thanks for the clarification, although I would suggest that if organisations wishing to publicise their equipment direct to an individual that they first ask via this forum if such individual would like to recieve the information for example. 'If you would like further information please contact me', which is the common means used on this forum by others. In my view it is not acceptable to use this professional forum to trawl for email addresses. Although no allagation is beng made in this case, this issue has nevertheless been commented upon in previuos threads, so would appear to be a general concern that does need to be addressed. I can now understand why some posters are reluctant to reveal their contact details.

Posted By dave burrage Derek The hole has to be covered as fumes could be released into the general atmosphere during plant operation. We cannot get at it from the inside as there is a large vessel immediately below the hole, in fact it was the top of the large vessel which we needed to work on requiring the hole to be made in the first place. A MEWP would only get us to the area of the hole, we still have to work around it to fit a new 'lid' to the hole which will be removable in the future. I am suggesting a temporary scaffold this time with a restraint system being fitted for the future.