Posted By Paul Price Our QC lab uses numerous chemicals in there testing process I have asked them to update thier RAs asthey are about to use eight new chemicals . I have told them to complete a risk assessment for all the chemicals .however the dept manager will only permit them to carry out RAs on two as they are the only ones that have R phrases in section 15 of the MSDS.Comments please.

Posted By gham fine if they are to use the chemical as is (their determining this is in itself is an assessment?) but will a process change the properties of a chemical, e.g. heat, contact with other chemical, contact with catalyst. By assessing the full process the reactivity with other product or environmental factors will highlight any other hazards it would be intersting to know what the chemicals are for a more informed answer

Posted By Keith E You're lucky!! I used to dream of only assessing 131 substances. At the last count my current CoSHH assignment was at 857 substances along with 23 processes, plus warehousing/storage/waste disposal along with and unknown number of mixtures/trials etc...still counting on that one. Luckily managed to group together and reduce the actual number of assessments required down to about 400 assessments. Tell that to the new kids trying to get into h&s and they won't believe you. My manager used to thrash me every day until I understood CoSHH.

Posted By Keith E Hmm, I both disagree/agree with the last comment - as I pointed out earlier just because a substance is not 'CHIP'ed', or a biological agent etc does not mean it should be ignored. You may well quickly conclude there is no health risk because of the circumstances of use etc - just remember the catch all statement with the CoSHH interpretation guidance. I'm all for minimising work/paperwork which is the bain of all our lives, but I would not agree with no assessment being needed. In these cases, I have/would enter on to a CoSHH inventory database, quickly followed by a note saying the substance is not considered to be a health risk in YOUR particular circumstances of use/exposure pattern to employees.

Posted By gham I agree with Dave You can buy distilled and deionised water for use in many processes would you expect a COSHH assessment for that. G'

Posted By gham Keith I agree with that also like i said before some sort of assessment must have been done to come to the conclution that it is safe or a full assessment is not required. Regardless of how safe any chemical is your still not likley to want to ingest, inhale it etc. You have to have a balanced system in place, and again without knowing what the chemicals are and the processes that they are involved in it is not really practical to comment beyond anything more than general terms

Posted By Dave Wilson MSDS sheets are a catch all as the supplier/ manufacturer does not know the environment in which you are going to use the product, to such an extent 99% w/w in case of fire drench with water same as on a bag of peanuts 'warning contains nuts!'

Posted By gham alan i think that was the point keith was making in the process they change state becoming harmful if inhaled and in some cases explosive if the dust particls are fine enough and in the right dilution in air They are just sitting there looking all innocent being a brick or a lump of wood then you take a grinder, saw, router, planer to them.......... watch out cause these thing can fight back, they'll get you if your not careful..................

Posted By Dave Wilson quite true mate but if you are using it as it says on the tin! then you don't

Posted By Adrian Watson Dear Paul, To carry an effective CoSHH risk assessment you need to take into account the following: Agent -- environment -- person You need to find identify: - What hazardous agents are present, in what physical state; - What are the physical, chemical and toxicological properties for each hazardous agent; - How much of the hazardous agent is produced, released and distributed throughout the working environment; - What are the potential routes of entry (inhalation, ingestion and absobtion)into the body; - What is the frequency and duration of exposure to the hazardous substance for each route of entry; - What are the likely health effects for each route of entry having regard to the intensity, duration and frequency of exposure. From this information you can then evaluate the risk of injury or illness occurring and put into place appropriate control measures. Control measures should be proportionate to the degree of risk. The most effective way of identifying control measures is to do a gap analysis for each step. I have found that where the assessor does not do this they invariably accept the status quo rather than elevaluate all options. To do this you should: - identify all potential controls at the source, routes of exposure, and on the individual; - list your existing controls for each of the stages; and - challenge why you cannot put into place the additional measures necessary to prevent or control exposures. MSDSs only contain a small part of the necessary information to evaluate risks; furthermore they have a habit of being unreliable and tend to be either wrong or miss out key facts. I would include them, but do process based risk assessments as this is more efficient and tends to get you to the right results. Regards Adrian Watson

Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney Keith has it about spot-on in my book! CFT