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Posted By Bob the Builder
Any thoughts on this?
My son is going on a trip with his junior school, which will visit The National Space Centre, Leicester.
I have found out that the school has appointed the external Bursary Consultancy who looks after the schools accounts etc to complete an out of school risk assessment for the trip – which they completed in less than 24 hours, with no visit to the space centre or getting any additional info from the school on any child’s special needs etc.
The Bursary Consultant is NEBOSH level 3 certificate qualified and is now offering all H&S consultancy services to schools including DDA, Fire Risk Assessments, Violence & Aggression Training etc.
As a parent with some basic knowledge of H&S I do not feel that this is adequate – am I right to be concerned?
Bob
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Posted By Dazmo Hello Bob, This may be of help.... http://www.hse.gov.uk/schooltrips/index.htmhttp://www.dfes-uk.co.uk/dfes/63.htm (See document titled Health and Safety of Pupils on Educational Visits) The last document is good and explains what this individual (and the school) should be doing when they are planning/risk assessing this trip, e.g. roles and responsibilities, exploratory visits etc. Somebody should be asking for health information, emergency contact details etc for the kids. The centre can provide copies of their risk assessments, any certification for activities under Childrens Safety Act 95 etc. (see http://www.aala.org/providers.php.) Good luck! Dazmo p.s. Not sure what space centre is but sounds like fun!
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
I just hope nothing goes wrong on the trip or at other times in school. I do wonder if their PI insurance will cover such activities though.
Bob (the original builder)
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Posted By Bob the Builder
Thanks for your responses.
Dazmo – the links are really useful
Bob (the original builder) – I will be asking the questions at school tomorrow
I have been on the NEBOSH web site and have seen a recent thread on this site re that the qualification they are touting isn’t really for safety practitioners, so why on earth are they getting away with offering this type of service?
Thanks again – Bob
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Posted By Martin Keeler
Having a NEBOSH level 3 qualification doesn't make this guy not competent to carry out a suitable and sufficient assessment of risk.
" As far as is reasonably practicable"
I recently took some students to the US for an educational trip, I certainly didn't send anyone out there to carry out an assessment prior to us going!
Regards Dr Keeler
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Posted By Dazmo
Hi Bob,
The need for more thorough risk assessment arises where activities are involved.
To be honest taking a group of kids to a museum for example doesn't carry a great deal of risk (much more risky for the museum - especially where untied shoe laces come into play!).
On the other hand sending kids off into the wilderness with nothing but a compass and some kendall mint cake on an orienteering trip to the depths of the Lake District requires a bit more thought and planning - and maybe more qualification/experience.
Kind regards
Darren
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Posted By Sally
It's a bit of a broad statement to say that having an NVQ 3 doesn't make someone qualified to carry out a risk assessment. We expect staff to carry out Risk Assessments having done Managing Safely or even a one-day in house course.
To make this person competent to carry out this type of assessement I would be asking what experience he h as in the risks of this type of trip Most places such as the space centre have their own risk assessments for group visits and it's likely this has been used as a basis - meaning a site visit is not always necessary. I would however expect him to be asking for information on an 'special needs' of both staff and pupils.
have you actually seen the risk assessment - that would put you in a better position to be able to see if all the main points have been covered.
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Posted By Jerry Sanderson
You don't say what type of school this is but if this is an LEA school you should talk to the LEA as it is likely that they will have detailed procedures relating to school trips. These will specify what schools need to do when involving pupils in any out of classroom learning. Clearly the requirements will vary depending on the level of risk involved in the activity. If you want any further details contact me.
Regards.
Jerry.
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Posted By Robert Weiland
I would have to ask what experience the Risk Assessor has. It could be that he is familiar with the place, or does assessments for school kids / young children a lot.
As a concerened parent I think it's fair to ask to see a copy of the assessment.
Good luck.
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
Hi Bob,
Best starting point is the risk assessment itself. Has it covered all of the significant risks. Believe it or not the main risks appear to be from the travel issues in school trips rather than the actual activities.
It is important to remember that while these "issues" are immotive they are fairly rare. I have carried out assessments for schools involved in everyting from Rugby Tours to Skiing breaks, Exchange visits to adventurous training and the overiding factor when you look at the "Stats" is the fact that many millions of visits are conducted every year and the number of significant issues that arise are in the tens rather than hundreds.
I believe it is more about the competence of the staff supervising the visit than the risk assessment. Both private and state schools offer up guidance on the completion of the assessments.
The competence of the risk assessor is important though. Rather than looking at the paper qualification I would ask them to provide EVIDENCE of their experience in the field, knowledge of the risks and legal requirements, demonstrate their understanding and any specific training they may have had in this area.
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