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#1 Posted : 16 March 2006 14:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen Just wondering what other people do in a similar situation.... I've been developing our New and Expectant mothers policy and procedure. The initial risk assessment was to be undertaken by the employee's team manager and if any issues were found, refered to the occ health dept and the health and safety dept (me!). Occ Health have turned around and said that they will be unwilling to share any information that they discuss regarding medical conditions with myself unless the employee gives express permission (even though they're quite happy to tell HR!). Now thats fine but what if the employee refuses permission? How can I take steps to remove the employee from the risk if I dont know what the problem is or if what I suggest as an alternative isnt going to create more of a problem. I know that doesnt read clearly but Im really fighting against the tide with this right now..
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#2 Posted : 16 March 2006 14:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Sounds a bit like petty empire building to me! If HR don't want to share the information with you, why not train them up to do the assessment? Tell them that and see how quickly the information arrives on your desk. It's not a problem we have because HR and H&S both answer to the same manager in my organisation. We do the assessment together in consultation with the employee. Needless to say I am bound by company confidentiality rules.
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#3 Posted : 16 March 2006 14:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman I think you are going to have to develop generic, fairly broad guidlines in order to help HR define the possible problems which enable them to advise the prospective mother on her choice of action. To be honest, in your job you do not even have the right to know if that person is pregnant or not. Strictly speaking, I think that you cannot even ask the question. (preggers ?) HR may indicate to you that such and such a person has need of special, short term consideration. Perhaps they may indicate that the condition is progressive but, again, short term. I would also suggest that you prepare a generic, progressive action plan. What are the possibilities/capabilities/problems for women in the first, second or third trimestre ? Month 9 and my wife spent half her life on the toilet. And keep the number of a local taxi firm nailed to you office wall. Yours, with great expectations, Merv
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#4 Posted : 16 March 2006 15:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Jason, I re-read your post and note that it's OH rather than HR that are not sharing the information and fair enough (patient confidentiality etc.) However that leaves you in a bind because the HSE Guidance at http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg373.pdf clearly states that (on the stage 2 flowchart) the company has to provide a specific assessment based on the advice they have received. So that means either the OH team train to do the assessments themselves; or they provide you with the anonymised information so you can do the assessment and return it to them; or you request a transfer / merger to the OH team. But it strikes me that overcomplicating the system is more likely to lead to documentation going missing. Like I said previously it's not a problem that's been raised in our organisation. I must admit the prospect (described by Merv) of completing a Pregnancy Risk Assessment without being told the person you are assessing is actually pregnant, seems particularly stupid. But it would make an interesting game on "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue". "Och, Hamish..."
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#5 Posted : 16 March 2006 15:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stupendous Man I was under the impression that a pregnant employee had a legal obligation to tell her employer when pregnancy is known/confirmed? "Employer" would not be limited to the company occupational health department - think how firms without an OH department would cope? If OH are refusing to play ball, then insist that the procedure is changed so that it is HR who are informed in the first instance, and they then notify occupational health and health and safety. This will avoid the 'patient confidentiality' being broken by occupational health professionals.
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#6 Posted : 16 March 2006 15:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Homer I have experienced this position also, but your Occ Health Department are only doing their job. I found best way to get round it was ask loaded questions i.e. you both know who you are talking about but don't mention any names. It seems to work. To be honest both you and your Occ Health have best interests in mind so it shouldn't ever be an issue.
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#7 Posted : 16 March 2006 15:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight We use an external OH service, and a couple of things strike me. One is that H&S do have a need to know, and we should already sign up to confidentiality arrangements (as Jon Breeze points out) as we deal with confidential stuff all the time; the BI510 now complies with Data Protection Law after all. But on another tack; why does pregnancy need an OH referral? We don't refer pregnant employees to OH as a matter of course; a 'normal' pregnancy isn't really an OH issue, is it? And our OH service also doesn't give details, all they will say is that in their opinion Mr/Ms X is or is not fit to carry out their work; if we write a good referral letter they may comment on specific tasks. So the behaviour of the OH service referred to seems par for the course to me. In the end, I too think this should all go through HR or line management, with 'competent person' (H&S or Risk Assessor) involvement, John
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#8 Posted : 16 March 2006 15:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Elliott Jason - If your OH service is not allowing you to carry out the "health" bit of your role - give the policy to them to write. Seriuously though it does seem a little bit of an overeaction by OH, Yes they are bound by patient confidentiality but you do need to know certain details if you are to comply with your statutory duties. We do not have such a problem in my organisation, we have an excellent working relationship with the OH team who will share with us the information necessary to carry out our role - suitably anonymised of course, everything else of a personal nature and therefore easily identifiable to an individual is dealt with by the OH team who are more than adequately trained to deal with most assessments.
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#9 Posted : 16 March 2006 17:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fred Pratley Jason, When writing your procedure, make HR responsible for advising you of the pregnant person. As for Occ Health, make them responsible for advising you of any conditions related to the individual's workplace that may adversely affect them, and what "allowances" they consider to be appropriate. Should get the right reaction. Regards Fred
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#10 Posted : 16 March 2006 20:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd http://www.ethics-networ.../econfidential.htm#legal or: "Breach of medical confidentiality leads to successful setttlement. Mr A developed a depressive illness following the disclosure of sensitive personal information about his medical condition. His solictor agreed a settlement of £17,500 in relation to a breach of medical confidentiality" I suppose you could say that by giving information to HR your OccH unit is breaching confidentiality....unless permission has been sought and given, that is.
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#11 Posted : 16 March 2006 22:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner Surely the risk assessment duty is geared to'ANY pregnancy in that particular job or task'.ie Controls being obliged to serve ANY pregnant woman obliged to work with that CHEMICAL,that MACHINE or that PROCESS(I accept some of the more drastic controls may be obliged to be a total non exposure arrangement with the pregnant employee removed from the task etc)........Should any ADDITIONAL personal medical information be chosen to be released by the pregnant lady then obviously the risk assessment assessment process is obliged to utilise this.From this point on, I dont see the situation to be any different from the countless other situations whereby an employee(Male or Female) chooses to keep personal medical information to themselves which an employer could'nt be expected to second guess.?? As safety people can we not park the decision to release or not release confidential information at the door of the occupational health professional and be done with it??
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