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Fire Risk Assessment: I'll show you mine if you show me yours...
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Posted By Sheila EJ Keogh
Would anybody be prepared to swap fire risk assessment forms, as I want to review ours by comparing it with others (and don't want to pay fire consultants to do it)? (Am also awaiting ODPM guides to become available). If you're happy to show me yours I'll show you mine.. please email me your fire risk assessment at sheila.keogh@raineronline.org and I'll email you back with mine.
Thanks very much in advance.
Sheila
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Posted By The toecap
yes stand by
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Posted By JPSafety
My one is on its way to you.
John
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Emailed you direct.
Version we use is from the local Fire and Rescue service and is purportedly used throughout Scotland. The version we used previously had been based on a recommended format from the old Scottish Office.
Since there are no more fire certificates being necessary, this is as close to one as we can get and should be a comprehensive enough format to cover all key aspects.
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Posted By Descarte
A scottish FRA? can you tell me where you got this, or if possible send me a copy so I can compare with one I have had to draw up.
would be happy to share
Des
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Posted By AJM
This is something i still can not grasp. I have been on a seminar for the new changes and been on a fire safety managers course and they say and I quote;
The Fire Risk Assessment is the cornerstone of the Order. This must be a suitable and sufficient assessment done by a competent person and reviewed regularly and if necessary amended. The Risk Assessment must be formally recorded if the responsible person employs 5 or more people, the premises are licensed or the Inspector requires it. This has not been tested in case law as yet, but in the fire officers opinion the minimum that will be considered would be if the competent person had sat all 5 (3 week) modules of fire training coupled with experience.
So unless anybody has i would suggest to use outside help, I mean in my opinion it is going the same way the legionella assessment and such are.
We only paid 430 pounds the company was run by ex-fireman and the assessment was fantastic. All I am saying is when the order eventually comes in you dont want to get left with egg on your faces.
Alan
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Posted By James Lawrence
When they were talking about the new fire reform regs, I completed this some time ago and still waiting.
I'm happy to share as I would like to know if I'm going down the right lines.
Thanks James
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Posted By Sheila EJ Keogh
Thanks very much for your responses and for copies of FRAs. This is much appreciated!
Sheila
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Posted By Sheila EJ Keogh
Apologies to those of you who haven't heard from me yet - I just checked my home email and was really pleased to see the number of responses I have. I will try to respond to most of you now, but if you don't hear from me rest assured, you'll get the FRA next Tuesday & Wednesday, when I'm next in the office.
kind regards all,
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Posted By shaun mckeever
AJM, I have to disagree with you. It does not say anywhere in the new regs that the fire risk assessment must be done by a competent person. The risk assessment must be done by the 'responsible person'. The responsible person is supposed to use a competent person to assist him, but the definition of competent is a bit woolly isn't it. It is crazy I know.
I have just reviewed a fire risk assessment today on behalf of a client. The risk assessment was a generic tick box form. The part referring to fire doors being shut was ticked. I asked the person who completed the assessment what the definition of fire door was. He could not answer, other than to say the door with the blue sticker on. So I asked how he felt able to tick the box referring to fire doors. On looking at the door the seals did not meet, the hinges were of the wrong type with screws missing, the glazing within the door was loose and the gap below the door was greater than 10mm.
Seems a bit silly that you can't do anything other than change a fuse in your house without employing a qualified electrician and gas fitters must be CORGI registered but fire risk assessors can be any Tom, Dick or Harry. I mean, whats the risk of fire and the implications of getting the assessment wrong?
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,
There is very hot debate going on about just who can do FSRAs. I have sat in meetings where some of the fire officers present think that in fairly simple workplaces anybody can do them, while others insist that even assessing shed needs a three week training course before pen is put to paper We're taking a pragmatic view on this. In our Charity shops we are saying that the Business Managers (trained to IOSH MS) can do them with comprehensive supporting guidance. For the Care Centres we are using the detailed and prescriptive guidance in NHS Firecode, and two very experienced Estates Managers who we are intending to get on the new NEBOSH course. We think Estates Managers are appropriate because they understand how buildings are put together, and have between them years of experience of contracting for and managing fire detection and response systems.
I do think however that this debate will run and run,
John
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Posted By Paulo Dinis
Concerning the Fire Risk Assessment Form, i have some templates but only in Portuguese.
As method for risk assesment, just an sugestion for possible method here : http://www.framemethod.be/ I don´t know if the regulation in UK is precise. In Portugal we use diferent risk assesment´s tools due to poor tecnical regulation.
Best regards, Paulo Dinis
Health and Safety Officer
Portugal
www.shstonline.com
www.paulodinis.com
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Posted By AJM
Shaun of course I know the responsible person must ensure the assessment is done, and obviously that doesn't mean the director or whoever it is has to do it personally. But the do have to have a competent person to assist him in his duties. I just tried to shorten my answer, but the end product is still the same competent person required to do the assessment. and yes I agree for a small corner shop etc it may well be able to be done in house.
I am in the woodwork industry employing 250 employees. So i believe the information i got from Fire Brigade training officers to be correct so as i said. Although NOT tested in case law yet it was their belief, but in the fire officers opinion the MINIMUM that will be considered would be if the competent person had sat all 5 (3 week) modules of fire training coupled with experience.
What more can i say.
Alan
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Alan
I would agree that a 250 person employee workplace with a very high level of inflammables and sources of ignition would need a fair bit of care in the assessment; I think the fire officers in this case are spot on,
John
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Hi AJM
I am fully in favour of the person carrying must be competent. I should be it took me five years to gain an honours degree in fire safty engineering, so I obviously have a vested interest. I am also an ex fire officer. My point is that the legislation does not insist that competent persons have to carry out the risk assessment. As a result many people who have a limited understanding of fire are undertaking fire risk assessments without having a clue as to what they should be looking for, hence my example above. In my previous life I became the Station Officer of Soho Red watch. For those of us who are a bit older and can remember, this is the watch that lost their previous Station Officer in a fire at Kings Cross. Many people forget to consider the risks to firefighters when they undertake their risk assessments. They understand that they should get out but they don't seem to appreciate that someone has to go in to a burning building. So, as you see, I am fully in favour of a competent person carrying out the FRA. I only wish the legislation made it so and tightened up its definition of 'competent'.
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Posted By Mike Hinton
Regarding the competent person CHSS are running a Fire Course accredited to the Institute of Fire Engineers. We have had problems at our sites previously regarding licensing and fire but since completing the course we have been cut some slack. The course is run my ex Fire Officers and my tutor Mick was brilliant with a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of experience. It is an option which has saved us a lot of money in consultancy fees
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Fire Risk Assessment: I'll show you mine if you show me yours...
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