Posted By Stuart Nagle In our workplace smoking is prohibited in all buildings. Some areas outside the buildings are designated for smoking (with wall mounted butt-bins). In addition we have a designated smokers room. This room is accessed from a single door to/from the outside of the building and is not accessible from inside the building (the door has a sign afixed that states 'SMOKING ROOM') and is completely seperate from the inside of the building by internal brick walls. It is equipped with a radiator, large sash window, extractor fan, lighting, seating and of course, a large ashtray. The floor is tiled with ceramic tiles. As this room is not 'public' and does not represent a risk to 'non-smokers', will it be illegal to continue to provide this facility to staff who smoke simple because it is 'enclosed' within a building? I am aware that the room will need to be cleaned by a person who will be 'at work' but there is a high possibility that this person is or may be a smoker and so would not necessarilly be at any higher risk than that to which they expose themselves whilst smoking!! If any cleaner was a non-smoker the options could be totally limited and may lead to the facility - if it was permittted, being closed because it could not be cleaned safely (e.g. without exposing a non-smoker to smoke or residues of smoking)!! If such a facility needed to be banned simply because it was 'enclosed' would seem rediculous, forcing staff outside into all weather extremes and forcing the employer to then provide some sort of bus shelter for smokers to stand in... The same could apply to cleaning - what is we provided a respirator to cleaners and instructed them to wear this PPE when carrying out cleaning in this area due to the risk of exposuire to smoke and smoke residues!! Opinions please..... Stuart

Posted By Fornhelper Don't know where you are Stuart but it would certainly be illegal under the new Scottish legislation that comes in next Sunday FH

Posted By RobAnybody Hmm, Stuart, A ban on smoking indoors in virtually all English workplaces is due to come in to effect next year. I believe the Scots have been forward minded enough to do this already. If it is as far reaching as many believe then you won't have the issue any more. The issue you should be looking at is not how unfair it is to make smokers stand outside in all weathers but how you can help these people make a positive & life enhancing move away from a lethal habit. Harsh, maybe, but I managed with help from employer, family & friends. No, I'm not a rabid member of ASH, just an ex-smoker who doesn't like the smell anymore. If BT can ban smoking by its' employees from all of its' premises (& Vans) baring the BT logo (into effect on 26th March I believe) then what is to stop other employers doing the same? We should be looking to best practice on this & similar issues. After all, we neeed to move forward don't we. I'm afraid that this may seem harsh but in light of future legislation you should be planning ahead for the good of all. Rob

Posted By RobAnybody Paul, If companies don't want their staff taking a 30 minute "fag break" then they should do something constructive like helping the smokers quit. This course of action would benefit not only the smokers & their families but employers would also get a fitter work force. I have no sympathy I'm afraid. Rob

Posted By Salus Hi Stuart, the risk to the cleaners would be negligible, same as walking down a high street and breathing in "other" fumes, thats the risk. This total ban could have another effect on industry, what if a company (have a smoking ban in all buildings / workplaces and vehicles)maintenance employee who does not smoke has to enter a domestic property where the resident / tenant is a smoker, the employee could say it is a workplace and i am not working there because of the company ban on smoking in all workplaces

Posted By Richard Mathews Having just watched my mother suffer and die from a chronic smoking related illness, I have little time for the smokers who have no consideration for other people’s wishes not to be affected by tobacco smoking. So I’ve always been in favour of a total smoking ban in all public places and especially workplaces where non-smokers don’t always have the choice not to go there available to them. However, I have revised my thinking a little because of the risk of driving the smokers “underground” where they have a sneaky drag in out of way places. Also, over the years I’ve become a little weary of arguing the anti-smoking case, people know now that smoking kills, so if smokers want to kill themselves I would rather let them get on with it and I will concentrate my efforts on stopping them taking others with them. So having had my rant, to answer your question Stuart, the ban, in Scotland, applies to public places which are "wholly or substantially enclosed" and specifically mentioned are, "Offices, factories and other premises that are non-domestic premises in which one or more persons work". I would put the argument forward that the smoking room that you describe is not a “public place” and niether is it an "Office, factory or other premises that are non-domestic premises in which one or more persons work" until someone at work has to go in and clean it. Therefore my view is that it would not be illegal, but you would have to provide any neccary protection for the cleaner.

Posted By RobAnybody Oversized 4x4s! I think you have lost the plot mate. We are discussing smoking in the work place not environmental vandalism. Another point, another loosing argument. As for insulting someones’ hygeine I hadn’t thought about taking it to the next level but now I might as I think you may have a point. Smokers do smell but they can do something about it. Where as those of us who have to walk through a street full of office smokers can’t. Oh, I don’t smoke & I use public transport & am not a hippie. So on that score could you please look after my health & that of my fellow man, man? Rob

Posted By Paul Devlin I think we should refrain from personal comments please people. This is after all a place for debate not argument? I think the point made about the 4x4s' is where do we stop. I too am a non smoker and personally dont like the smell from me the morning after a night clubbing but its my choice to go to these places so I accept it. There are both pro's and con's on the smoking issue but its now becoming more and more like "1984". Theres obviously the health implications of smoking and the drain on the NHS etc but the counter argument is how much smokers put into the economy since they are so heavily taxed. Whats next banning the consumption of alcochol.

Posted By jackw. Agreeing or disagreeing with the new smoking legislation (As a non-smoker, who unfortunately had the big C a few years back – but thankfully recovered and still here) I am in agreement and am anti smoking in general. a personal view either way immaterial. The law is upon us and we have to deal with it by managing it. My bottom line to managers is you get paid to manage including overseeing compliance with company policies in all areas including the required smoking or no smoking policy. so lets just get on with it….use our energies positively encourage and support those who wish to give up the habit. references to 4x4s etc. etc. are irrelevant. Ban alcohol. I doubt that. But would any modern civilised society allow it if it were new and just being introduced. I doubt it… Why? Well have a look into your local hospital casualty ward on Friday and Saturday nights. Check divorce rates related to alcohol or wife/child abuse, car accidents and deaths. Ok I will get off now. Cheers. PS I like a few beers.