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#1 Posted : 07 April 2006 13:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By DaveT With the threat of Bird flu now in the UK. I have been asked in which order do we remove PPE to prevent any contamination should we have to deal with any Birds encountered at work. We are a cleansing section in local authority and wish to reduce any risk posed to staff whom in the past have dealt with birdsas part of their daily working. The current situation since the scottish outbreak is to report back and await instructions. DAVE
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#2 Posted : 07 April 2006 13:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Dave, Can you pick 'em up with grabbers and drop 'em stright into sacks? This would be better than handling them, bird flu or no dead birds can be pretty nasty, John
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#3 Posted : 07 April 2006 14:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Elliott Dave Follow the link to Defra http://www.defra.gov.uk/...e/ai/wildbirds/index.htm
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#4 Posted : 07 April 2006 14:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By atm Dave The virus is not very contagious and dies within a few hours outside a host. So use a pick up device wash your hands thoroughly and put on a FFP2/3 mask to live to fight another day.
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#5 Posted : 07 April 2006 15:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Helen Horton Grabgbers will be great for little birds but if you had a swan you wouldn't be able to pick it up with a grabber. The DEFRA guy on the radio this morning effectively said it's very hard for people to catch this so probably not too much risk, but I'd check out the DEFRA website regularly as the comment was made that their advice will change as we gain more information and more understanding of the particular disease.
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#6 Posted : 07 April 2006 17:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman I'm still looking for a recipe for stuffed swan. Best so far seems to be chestnuts with lemon and rosemary. Spit roasted with a pouilly fumé. Usual roast potatoes and brussel sprouts. Bisto gravy. Or oxo ? Dunno. Dessert is no problem : Wild strawberry sylabub. (got some in the freezer from last year) Yee Haw ! Natural latex rubber gloves to be worn by Chef. Merv
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#7 Posted : 07 April 2006 17:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Diane Thomason Merv have you been on the cooking sherry again?
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#8 Posted : 07 April 2006 17:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch For to prepare a swan. Take & undo him & wash him, & do on a spit & lard him fair & roast him well; & dismember him on the best manner & make a fair carving, & the sauce thereto shall be made in this manner, & it is called: Chaudon. Take the issue of the swan & wash it well, & scour the guts well with salt, & boil the issue all together til it be enough, & then take it up and wash it well & hew it small, & take bread & powder of ginger & of galingale & grind together & temper it with the broth, & color it with the blood. And when it is boiled & ground & strained, salt it, & boil it well together in a small pot & season it with a little vinegar.
INGREDIENTS: 1 swan (see note) Olive oil (see note) DIRECTIONS: With your hands or a pastry brush, coat the entire outside of a cleaned & gutted swan (being sure to reserve the giblets for the Chaudon sauce) with olive oil. Roast on either a spit or in an oven. (A modern rotisserie may be the closest many of us will be able to come to actual spit roasting, but if that is not possible, an oven will do the job as well.) Roast until done, basting often with broth or drippings. Carve into serving pieces and serve with Chaudon sauce. Chaudon Sauce: Swan giblets Salt Broth Unseasoned toasted breadcrumbs (see note) Ginger Galingale Red Wine Vinegar Wash the blood from the giblets, and while still wet, sprinkle with a little salt. Place in a pot, cover with water and boil until done. Remove, drain, & cool. Chop the giblets into small pieces; place giblets and the broth, spices, & breadcrumbs in a food processor (or any equivalent device) and combine into a smooth gravy-like sauce. Strain if necessary. Place in a sauceboat, add salt if necessary, and bring to a soft boil. Reduce heat to a simmer & add a little vinegar for a slight tartness. Serve with the roasted swan. What?!? No swan at your local market? In case such a fate does befall you, any large waterfowl will do, such as a goose. Regards, Peter
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#9 Posted : 07 April 2006 18:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner My Borough in N.Ireland has just-5 minutes ago-been given the all clear on 3 locally tested dead swans.Yes the local council was first to secure carcass, Yes we were first to secure site(not even on Council property),Yes we had to seek out the relevant Dept Agri persons and be on hand to assist their removal of carcass. Did anyone tell us what our role was going to be? NO-Did anyone tell us how to reduce potential viral spread? NO! Did anyone from Dept Agri outline what H/S measures are appropriate NO?.If you look at their information site all you get is alot of waffle about caution in the poultry sector when working with farmed poultry. NOBODY IN THE DEPT OF AGRI (DEFRA etc) HAS GIVEN ANY RECOGNITION TO THE OBVIOUS LOCAL AUTHORITY FRONT LINE ROLE IN DEALING WITH SUSPECT BIRD CARCASS. I suspect this is similar across GB. The really sad thing about this is that DEFRA personnel will eventually be snowed under in terms of disposing of carcass (no need to test then )Carcasses will not be allocated exclusion zones and Council operatives will be engaged in much the same manner as we presently respond to small animal road kill etc.At that stage DEFRA will possibly will still not have told us how to protect our workers.When advice does eventually come be prepared to have your 'carcass removal staff' drop the trousers for their immunisation shot.
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#10 Posted : 08 April 2006 07:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman It seems that defra are winding up for another "mad swan" disease fiasco. Do any of them know what they are doing ? Apart from generating lots of "don't worry" PR. Would lots of salt and vinegar be a reasonable safety precaution with swan and chips ? And NLR gloves. Merv
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#11 Posted : 10 April 2006 07:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By DaveT I refer to my initial post: IN WHAT ORDER DO YOU REMOVE YOUR PPE. After removing a dead bird which could be a swan and grabbers as suggested would be inappropriate. I want reduce risk of contamination from contact with your own PPE? It has been suggested that gloves be turned inside themselves, but do they come off first or last. If you leave them on and remove your face mask touching your face could causes contamination, removing your gloves then touching your face mask could pass on contaminants from the mask (or indeed any other appropriate PPE Do you now get my dilemma!!! I have sourced the recommended PPE just want to get things right if we do get a serious outbreak and better safe that sorry.
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#12 Posted : 10 April 2006 07:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham How about decontaminating the gloves before you remove them. Simply use an alcohol wipe or medicinal alcohol on the gloves first. Then use these to remove the hood. (Note, a half mask does not protect the sensitive skin of the face. Only a full hood will do this!) You may wish then to repeat the decontamination of the gloves before removing any protective clothing. One point to remember in all of this. The virus must be able to gain access to the inside of your body. It can do this through inhalation, ingestion or skin penetration. Providing the skin is in good condition, you ensure that you have protected both mouth and nose, and you ensure that you maintain a high standard of personal hygiene the risk is actually quite small. One thing I would do is to have an alcohol based sanitiser handy to decontaminate my hands immediately after having removed my protection.
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#13 Posted : 10 April 2006 07:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett Hi Dave Your frustration is understandable - after all, if you've got all dressed up and can't find a swan to cook it's seems so pointless. On your original question, the correct removal of contaminated PPE to prevent or minimise personal contamination is, as you identify, of considerable importance. Providing services relating to exposure to contamination and removal of potentially contaminated PPE is something that I do; so if you need precise guidance and suitable training please get in touch directly. I'm based adjacent to the Dartford Crossing but I travel as well as a migrating bird [but without the avian diseases]. Frank Hallett
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#14 Posted : 10 April 2006 08:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kevin Willis Try this link on the HSE Website, it gives the order for putting on and removing PPE http://www.hse.gov.uk/bi...diseases/aisuspected.pdf
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#15 Posted : 10 April 2006 10:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Bish Rather than handling the bird with gloves or tongs, use a plastic sack to pick it up with, that way possible contact with the body is further minimised. Dog owners have been clearing up after their pets this way for years.
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#16 Posted : 10 April 2006 12:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By DaveT Thanks my question has been successfully answered. Dave
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#17 Posted : 10 April 2006 15:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By jackw. Hi, seems going a bit to far for me but apparently Fife council have banned all "hen parties", birdies, eagles and albatross on golf courses. and the use of old flash bang wallop cameras ("watch the birdie") sorry just seems people getting scared about very little. you want to be safe. Don’t drive home!!!!!
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#18 Posted : 10 April 2006 16:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Griffiths 2671 I know its not very appropriate or PC but as the question has been answered - a little humour (I did say a little) Apparently a man in Birmingham has been diagnosed with the bird flu condition. He complained to his doctor of his compulsion to buy shoes that he never wore, couldnt drive his car properly etc etc etc paulgrif2671 - waits for the hate mail to be delivered !
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#19 Posted : 15 April 2006 11:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham Just to try to put some perspective into this debate (and I have got my flak jacket and hard hat on!), the following letter has just appeared in "The Week" of 15th April: ===== Your front page on bird flu has it about right. I have been hearing of the spread of this civilisation-terminating bug across Europe with increasing horror, forgetting all along that I'm actually living in the home of the thing in China without giving it a second thought. Though I live in an urban area, it's not unusual to see the odd chicken taking a morning stroll down the main road. They seem to be minding their own business and the people around them mind theirs. True, there are few wild birds in the trees, but that has much to do with the Chinese penchant for catching them for a variety of culinary and musical purposes and has nothing to do with their threat to publich health. I was also here for the Sars outbreak and have seen what the Chinese government can do when it wants to mobilise against a public health risk, but I've seen little evidence they're taking this one too seriously. The response back home, in contrast, reminds me of one of the reasons I'm proud to be British. Fond visions of my compatriots setting up 10km exclusion zones around killer ducks makes me a little homesick for the the charm of British eccentricity. I wish everyone back home the best in this, the hour of your dire need, but really guys, you can afford to relax a little on this one. Just don't kiss the chickens Pete Marchetto, Guilin, Guangxi Province, China.
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