Posted By Robert S Woods A Chain used for lifting vessel lids has snapped whilst being used (no one hurt thankfully). It was inspected by the insurers last month and has not been misused or damaged in any way. Vessel lids are well within the SWL for the chain. Advice on RIDDOR and comment on how you would proceed with this issue most welcome.

Posted By Robert S Woods I only have access toi the regs not guidance. The chain is not an integral part of the hoist but a lifting accessory. Still reportable? I am going to report it but want to make sure I'm on solid ground. Bob

Posted By Andy Walker Bob, Sorry to put a fly in the ointment but the guidance states "Collapse, failure or overturning of any load bearing part of cranes, hoist, lifts, mobile platforms, cradles, excavators or FLT's. The way I interpret this regarding cranes is a failure of any part above and including the hook including ropes, pulleys etc. (ie a fixed part of the crane) is reportable. Below the hook is not (similar to statutory inspections under LOLER). This was confirmed by an retired HSE inspector. It could be argued by some that the chain is load bearing, however, it is as you stated an accessory and not a part of the crane. If you want to discuss this e mail me directly and I'll give you my phone number Andrew

Posted By Mr T Wilcock I would suggest you find information regarding,uniform calculations for lifting accessories, included angles, and leg tension.Mis- calculation of the above can result in failure regardless of chain being within its SWL/WLL. It is absolutely reportable under riddor. If you need any further information,i would be glad to help. Regards Terry..................

Posted By John Murgatroyd Sad. You're in the business of H&S. The chain that failed may well not have been "part of a loadbearing mechanism", but it was a chain involved in lifting. If so, it should have been on your list of insured articles....those that your insurers check....complete with its swl tag and some sort of id. Not on your insurers list ? Oh dear...not insured. The next sad thread will be how to cover-up the loss of life or limb of a person killed or injured by the failure of another piece of gear.....along with the inevitable thread of whether or not it is a RIDDOR incident. You can also bear in mind that somewhere in the organisation someone HAS noted the incident down for future reference....even if it was a worker....every company has someone who notes these things down...he/she may even have buried the failed chain/sling to be unearthed at a later date. I myself have noted, for future reference, several non-reports of incidents....ie: overturning of a fork lift (A definite RIDDOR incident) the uncontrolled drop of the lift forks due to the hydraulics being ripped off by using the forklift to drag articles along the ground (another RIDDOR) Finally: Reportable dangerous occurrences are: (This list summarises each of the dangerous occurrences - )collapse, overturning or failure of load-bearing parts of lifts and lifting equipment. I think that a chain attached to a hook and to the load is definitely covered. ie: "load-bearing parts" and "lifting equipment"

Posted By David A Cooper A form 2508 should be completed as this would be deemed a "collapse". I would also refer you to the requirements of LOLER 1998. I have some examples of similar incidents in my library, if you want me to send you some information please let me know. David.

Posted By Lee A What do you have to lose by reporting this incident, the HSE will get hundreds of reports like this one on a regular basis. I doubt very much they are going to coming knocking on your door and whisk you away, then give you a thrashing with a bull whip. However, if you don't report it and as mentioned in one of the earlier threads, the information collector in your company pulls out evidence at a later stage, lets say after someone has been injured from a similar incident. Gives it to the HSE who are crawling all over you because of the latest incident, they are then going to ask why the earlier incident has not been reported. At this stage you may see the bull whip, I would report unless your into whipping!!!!!! Lee

Posted By John Murgatroyd "collapse, overturning or failure of load-bearing parts of lifts and lifting equipment" came direct from the HSE website on reportable incidents. Now, call me a pedant but isn't a chain-sling an item of load-bearing equipment ? ie: It's equipment, and it bears a load. But then, H&S is now an industry that concerns itself more with the income and pension factor than with health and safety. Even the HSE is now more concerned with shuffling paper than H&S. Not to worry, I'm sure the company that bears the liability for risks will be interested.

Posted By Martyn Hendrie John, You are correct regarding what is stated on the HSE reporting web page but, unless the RIDDOR regs have been amended. (and I can't find an amendment) "Collapse, failure or overturning of any load bearing part of cranes, hoist, lifts, mobile platforms, cradles, excavators or FLT's" is what has to be reported. (As stated in the regulations) I don't think they changed the RIDDOR wording when they introduced the new definitions in LOLER. Chains, ropes, shackles, etc are not part of the crane, etc. therefore not reportable if they fail.

Posted By Andrew W PS I posted the comments above from home and forgot to sign them Andy Walker

Posted By Gary L The good thing about this forum is that you have the ability to consider the opinions of other H&S professionals. In the first instance I would have said that this was definitely reportable, but now I would have to say, it depends. It depends on whether the failure of the chain could have lead to a fatality or serious injury. If the chain broke on a relatively low risk lift, say moving a load from A to B with the height of the load remains at half metre above the ground then the potential for a fatality or serious injury is low. If at any point during a lift a chain breaks and the height of the load COULD have exceeded say 2 metres then the potential for the load causing significant damage is greater, in which case I would report it. Gary

Posted By John Murgatroyd They don't investigate every instance reported...very few in fact. Not my problem, although the phrase "company whistleblower" confirms my already stated belief that H&S is seen as an irritation, getting in the way of a otherwise interesting career. On one hand the hse are stating that employees should be consulted and educated about H&S, on the other hand practically 100% of employers, compounded by their H&S consultants, want employees to keep their noses out. I've got a long list, some from my own various employments and a lot more from my various union aquaintances, of employers encouraging their employes to ignore H&S regulations in pursuit of greater productivity and being ably assisted in this goal by the very people they supposedly employ to ensure compliance.....H&S consultants. As a final comment on this subject..........how many of you have EVER seen a lifting chain sling break under load ? Yes, the load drops....but the load goes DOWN....not too many employees with a brain stand under a load being lifted........but the chain goes SIDEWAYS as it breaks, the top goes up and sideways and the bottom goes down and sideways.