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#1 Posted : 19 April 2006 21:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke Hi folks Sometimes I think we are expected to know everything, even none H&S related! Scenario. A friend was working abroad and given a company mobile phone handset, the phone contract was a "pay as you go" and my friend paid for all charges up front. Since leaving the company, under alleged sex discrimination issues, they have consulted a solicitor for advice. The company has since accessed all private text messages and issued a print out of all messages sent and recieved to try and claim inappropriate phone use and skirt around the sex discrimination claim. My friend was not allowed to wipe the phones memory before their departure, and surely the company has had to approach the mobile company to get a copy of all these messages? We are unaware of a company policy regarding mobile phone useage, and the work contract away was for 6 months, so personal texts are to be expected are they not? Are they allowed to use text messages this way, does data protection not come into this somewhere? Your thoughts would be appreciated and interesting. Regards. Linda SHE doesn't know at all.
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#2 Posted : 20 April 2006 09:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Linda, As the phone was company property I would assume that they can access this if they want, in the same way as the PC / laptop / PDA / Blackberry / USB Flash etc is theirs and not that of the employee, so how it is used and the contents of it belong to the employer. The other issue is about having a clear Policy which deals with these Communication systems, if this was not in place etc etc I am constantly amazed that people use this new technology do not realise what their standing is with it and how quickly you can get into trouble if it is abused, it is so easy in a fit of rage to say or send an email which at the touch of a button could be forwarded on to everyone in the office and the world, not to mention downlaoding stuff bypassing the company IT security which could have a devastating effect on the business. Modern mobiles are essentialy smallish computers and can hold many Gb of information, the new cyber thief! also electronic documents are discoverable in a court of law as well, just because you have deleted it, it can still be retrieved.
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#3 Posted : 20 April 2006 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fred Pratley Some years ago when we were "given" company mobiles, we were required to declare whether or not we had used it for personal calls (for tax purposes, apparently regarded as a "perk"). Needless to say this quickly died a death, but the point is that the taxman expected personal calls to be made, and therefore so must every business, unless they specifically excluded it in their employment contract. Its very similar to using your private car for business. If you have an accident while on business your employer's insurance company will ask to see your personal car insurance cover, and if this does not specifically exclude business use, then your personal insurance company will have to cover the cost. It all depends on what is, or is not, in writing.
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#4 Posted : 20 April 2006 10:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis My only problem here is the question of "who holds the contract?" If the friend pays the tariff for top ups then I suspect a good case could be made that the company simply provided a piece of electronic equipment for the employee to use, in such a situation the information is not the property of the company and there is no disciplinary offence committed. Linda - Your friend needs a good solicitor here as this is going to be complex. Also unless this information was relied on at the time of the employment separation then it could be ruled invalid by a tribunal. It also occurs to me that without specific policies in place the company is going to find it very hard to justify its stance at regarding the matters it has claimed to identify as offences. Bob
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#5 Posted : 20 April 2006 10:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte I know companies including local councils which get itimised bills including txts, you ahve to identify the numbers you were using for work purposes and those for personal use to make your claim both for claiming expenses and for tax purposes
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#6 Posted : 20 April 2006 13:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt I do not have any real advice just an observation. We should know as safety people that the safe behaviour you exhibit is a function of the supervision you recieve and feedback given. In the absence of a policy and if no one told your friend off or corrected her phone useage during her tenure I would argue that they the managers accepted the use of the phone as being reasonable. Of course this depends on the amount of oversight they had i.e. signing her expenses claims, if they signed they agreed it was ok IMHO.
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#7 Posted : 20 April 2006 18:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke Hi Thanks to everyone who responded on here and direct. All costs were paid by my friend and not the company, no policy is in place over usage. It gets better, as apparently the phone is supplied as part of a control measure for lone working - but you have to pay for the phone credit your self. Hmm. If anything comes of this that I can post, that may be of interest after a solicitor has had a look at the situation I will keep you informed. Regards. Linda SHE is learning!
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#8 Posted : 21 April 2006 13:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Red Ones No employer in England & Wales is allowed to charge the user for PPE. What cost are they trying to reclaim, considering that the cost was met by the user? I would think the user has a case to claim for the work related costs, if it can be argued that it is PPE given the lone worker status, then there could be a case for illegal deduction of wages.
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#9 Posted : 21 April 2006 14:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By gham Linda have a look over Section 5 of this link http://www.jisclegal.ac....anrights/humanrights.htm one of my pet hate is unlawful intrusion of personal communications within the workplace. Even if mail is sent to your work address with your name on it no person is allowed to open it only the addressee This i think also applies to all electronic communications: http://www.jisclegal.ac.uk/pdfs/eMonitoring_FE.pdf The employer now needs to demonstrate that they obtained the information lawfully have a look over this http://portal.nasstar.co...0at%20Work%20%202005.pdf I would doubt that they can obtain this information without telling her previously that they may under certain circumstances do it. Its probalby nowt you've already been told but there may been some more fire power you can use Also try a Google on "Privacy at Work" and try opsi.gov.uk for "Human Rights Act 1998", Data Protection Act 1998, The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. If there is any pertinent case law you see that you would like more information on let me know the cases and i'll dig some out for you G'
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#10 Posted : 21 April 2006 15:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte During my first week of new emplyment a few years ago I wrote 5 or so emails in a day to my family and friends letting them know how I was getting on and wishing them all well. This apparently contravined the IT policy of which at that time I am sure I was not fully aware of having sent+received greater than 10 personal emails in a day (was pushed over 10 as those 5 people I wrote replied). The result was that the IT dept printed out all my emails work and none work related for that week and sent them hard copy to my line manager to which I got a verbal warning I thought it was a little extreme and in reading the above link of Electronic monitoring laws maybe in controvention of my rights. But hey I dont work there anymore
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#11 Posted : 21 April 2006 15:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By gham Des i suspect you are correct and you still have too much time on your hands if you read all that Your old employer should have effectivley implimented their communications policy, then you would have been aware that you knew what it was if you know what I mean. Also if they monitor your communication under those conditions which are normally lawfully allowed they can only make copies to those communication which are in detriment to the business, e.g. you slagging them off or trying to poach customers or otherwise act in a manner which is not in the best intrests of the company. As far as i can recall they are not permitted to make copies/recordings of personal communications of an employee unless they have a lawful reason for doing so e.g fraud investigations etc where the police would be involved Invation of privacy is one of my pet hates it really gets me wound up
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#12 Posted : 21 April 2006 15:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte It was only 2 pages, I dont have that much time on my hands, honest
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