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#1 Posted : 20 April 2006 14:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts We have female workers located in a multi occupancy building where the common areas including the toilets are the responsibility of the landlord. The toilet area for the women contains three toilets and there is one sanitary disposal unit which is in the main common area within the toilet. The ladies are complaining as they say it is not pleasant to have to go into the main area to dispose of sanitary items. We have tried moving the bin into one of the toilets but then it causes problems when more than one lady wishes to use that toilet and they have to wait which they say is embarassing because it is obvious why they are waiting when the other toilets are empty. As far as I can see the landlord is meeting his duty to provide sanitary disposal (minimal though it is) - or does anyone know different.
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#2 Posted : 20 April 2006 14:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Workplace Regs 20 (1)says "suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences shall be provided..." I don't think it stretching the definition too far to say that this doesn't appear to be the case. Have you actually contacted the landlord and requested that he provide more bins yet?
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#3 Posted : 20 April 2006 15:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By renown Cathy Reg 20 (1) of the Workplace regs states that suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences shall be provided. As your ladies are having to 'queue up' for the only available bin, then this is not suitable or sufficient. I would lean on the landlord a little bit more.
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#4 Posted : 20 April 2006 15:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts Landlord doesnt consider sanitary bins to be a sanitary convenience as far as he is concerned a sanitary convenience is the toilet which he is providing - as he has provided a method of disposing of sanitary items (the one bin!!) - apparently its our fault for having so many women working together
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#5 Posted : 20 April 2006 15:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Young Suitable and sufficient should mean that these bins should be located in areas where privacy of use is guaranteed and in sufficient quantities to prevent overfilling i.e. 1 bin for every toilet cubicle.
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#6 Posted : 20 April 2006 15:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts Looks like I have a battle on my hands with Mr Minimalistic Landlord - As far as he is concerned he feels he is following the letter of the Regulations - suitable and sufficient is as far as he is concerned providing a receptacle for waste which he is doing
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#7 Posted : 20 April 2006 16:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Cathy I sympathise but one of the problems in the H&S world is if you quote legislation at a difficult 'recipient' then it will always come back to bite you especially with 'suitable and sufficient' speak to your friendly EHO at the LA Env Health Dept (preferably a Lady EHO) this is not a sexist comment but a way to skin the cat, as they will give an opinion, this can obviously be annonomooooseely (cant spell that been a long day!)! This obviously not a reputable company or can you go above his head!
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#8 Posted : 20 April 2006 16:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fred Pratley If one or more ladies were considering a complaint to the local EHO, they (HSE and councils) are duty bound to investigate and take action, as well as maintain confidentiality and report back to the compalinant. Will probably result in a visit if they did, but certainly worth sharing this sort of information with your minimalist landlord.
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#9 Posted : 20 April 2006 17:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte Or 100 quid = 2 new bins. If they are arranging collection for the one already there then I am sure it would not be hard for them to empty the other 2 as well. Guess you would rather the landlord pay the 100 quid, but dpending on your budget or who ever's it may be easier and more building/landlord relationship friendly to bite the bullet and buy them?
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#10 Posted : 21 April 2006 00:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd So, any provision for disabled people ? Or, presumably the landlord is providing business premises, provision for pregnant women ? Maybe the landlord isn't providing even basic requirements ?
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#11 Posted : 21 April 2006 01:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Saracen11 Hi Cathy, “suitable and sufficient” it is not. I can’t believe this is being discussed? (Nothing personal against anyone that has contributed– I just can’t see the logic of the landlord?) I agree with other postings, get the landlord to face up to his/her responsibilities and have him/her provide more bins… it’s a disgrace and degrading to have the current arrangements! What would his/her reaction be if the waste were to be flushed? (Apart from damaging the system?) Regards
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#12 Posted : 21 April 2006 08:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts Many thanks for all your responses - we have now gone back and tried again - in writing this time to remind this Landlord of his duty - fingers crossed - I have a friendly EHO who is prepared to visit if we dont get anywhere and we also have a rent review due on this property shortly so there is some leverage there. We supply the rest area for our staff shouldnt think any of the other occupants have even thought of such a thing they are mainly very small concerns (2 or 3 employees)- dont get me onto disable access etc completely another ball game however we get round this as the part of the building housing our operational/public area is all singing all dancing DDA and H & S beautiful.
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#13 Posted : 15 May 2006 13:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts Promised I'd keep you posted on this saga - the Landlords latest solution - provide us girls with sanitary bags in each toilets and large notices on the back of the toilet door saying please put the bag in the bin provided (still one bin - three toilets)!!!!
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#14 Posted : 15 May 2006 13:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By gham Our building is shared occupancy and we provide bins as we are the employers, where the over lap of undertakings is concerned there is a shared cost involvled. What are the terms of your tennancy are you not in posiition to provide your employees with "suitable and Sufficient" sanitary convieniences until such time as you (or the employer) can negotiate appropriate cover. I don't mean to sound as though im scalding but you should be doing what is reasonably practicable, in this case you can solve the problem short term until you get and longer term solution
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#15 Posted : 15 May 2006 14:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson Sorry, time for two pennyworth through gritted teeth - find the number of the local EHO, ask those ladies affected to write out a formal complaint letter to give to said officer when you ask them to call, sit back , wait for landlord feathers to fly !! This is basic personal hygiene we are talking about here, not rocket science !! He'll be re-introducing slavery next if not stopped !! I do despair of totally unfeeling bosses like this guy !! What next, re-useable condoms in the male toilets ?? Sorry for the obvious and blatent sarcasm, but this guy reeks of Rigsby in Rising Damp - probably hands out toilet sheets individually counted !!
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#16 Posted : 15 May 2006 14:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cathy Ricketts We've been contacting him and contacting him again!! However my friendly EHO has just come up trumps with this - The reference you are looking for is BS6465 2006, Aptly titled Sanitary Installations. Luckily it has recently been updated. the relevant extract which can be found on p10 of said document. - this refers to the size of cubicles and the fact that the bins must not touch the seats Many thanks to all - we'll keep on battling
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