Posted By Alexander Falconer Bob, are you sure these people are non-H&S personnel or are you assuming? As a previous mentor stated ASSUME makes an ASS of U and ME There are many practitioners out there, whilst they claim to be knowledgeable in some aspects, they welcome support & guidance from others in areas where their own knowledge is not so good. I for one am not 100% knowledgeable in all aspects of H&S and do not mind admitting this. I am happy to share my own areas of expertise with others, and expect the same in return. This in turn is also an ideal way to network and share best practice with likeminded practitioners. There I've said it, it is Friday after all.

Posted By Descarte "The discussion forums are intended for professional discussion and debate on a variety of issues relating to health and safety in the workplace." Ok so sometimes it is more question and answer than debate but I think it is nice to have a free exchange of ideas and opinoins and a helpful regular supply of contributors to those questions Des [Bsc, SSc etc] - [Bronze swimming certificate, Silver swimming certificate etc]

Posted By Raymond Rapp Whilst I agree with Bob's sentiments, it is very difficult to distinguish the 'chaff from the wheat.' I have asked for help and freely provided it on many occasions. Hence I tend to give the benfit of doubt if I am not sure of the validity of the posting. Incidently Bob, it is poor form to flaunt your qualifications on a chat forum, good as they obviously are. Regards Ray

Posted By Alan Hoskins OK Raymond - there goes my third paragraph... Freeserve - Huh! Alan

Posted By J Knight Hi Folks, Absolutely in favour of free exchange of info! I have given advice, and sent stuff, and I have received advice and stuff in return, hopefully to mutual benefit! We need to promote what we do, and this forum is one way of doing it. I particularly welcome requests from non-H&S folk, as well as doing a good turn it helps cement the idea that H&S can be a help rather than a hindrance. And yes, people get for free what others charge for, but I'm sure that in some cases this amounts to free advertising and doesn't harm the business case for paying for advice when things get very technical, involved or detailed. One reason for people using hotmail a/cs rather than work addys is to do with spam and junk; it's easier to control if it goes to an internet mailbox, rather than straight into the wide open welcoming arms of Outlook; also some employers have very strict rules about work email addys, John

Posted By Frank Hallett This is always a difficult topic; and one that I've got very strong feelings about [do a trawl of previous threads to see the voluminous and occassionaly acrimonious [not me] exchanges on this]. It simply isn't possible to sensibly discuss this in the terms of what should, or shouldn't, be OK - every respondent and provider of answers will have their very own, exclusive, reasons for doing what they do. Ultimately, if I , as an independant safety professional & trainer decide to freely provide some info that I could have "sold", that's my decision. My motives are generally altruistic but I am now deliberately attempt to avoid those that I have come to see as regular posters of questions and hooverers-up of material that really should be part & parcel of any active H&S professionals portfolio. This could go on & on and not be resolved as long as the IOSH remit to enable the provision of assistance and information attracts the range of readers & respondants that it does. Frank Hallett

Posted By J Knight The boehrenfruhstucken we ate in North Eastern Germany (called 'Dunkel Deutschland' by one of the very friendly and helpful people we came across) were superb. A huge bowl of eggs scrambled with onions, Dill, and, for the carnivores, fine chopped fat bacon; served with fruit juice and fresh white bread. Yum. Have to agree that the beer was good, as was the wine, espcially the Gewurztruaminer, John

Posted By Alexander Falconer All fine and dandy comparing the pro's & cons of belgian -v- german beers Sorry lad's I still prefer my Bud's.

Posted By J Knight Merv, Sometimes its not a question of not knowing how to do it, it can just be a need to see what other people are doing, before doing one's own. That's one way of learning, and is especially helpful for me in areas where I don't feel that I know that much, such as food safety. Sometimes not knowing enough means that I need to learn a whole lot more, as it could be a core area of my work, and then yes, I have done the groundwork and built knowledge up from its foundations. Sometimes though its an area which is peripheral, partly somebody else's problem, and then it makes sense to use the help at hand. And since I've used that help sometimes, I do feel bound to offer it if I can. It's the prices in France that get me every time, even nowadays. £10 a head? You'd be lucky to get coffee and cake for that in London. John

Posted By J Knight Of course, none of this applies to real Budweiser, from Budvar, John

Posted By Merv Newman I'm never going to get that hammock swinging, am I ? J, totally agree with you. A decent presentation or training programme takes hours, days, weeks of work, thinking and worrying. Sometimes a 1-hour presentation will take me a whole day to prepare, rehearse, refine. The DRA programme I started two weeks ago is still not in a presentable state. Despite all the help from IOSH colleagues. I was going to work on it this morning but a neighbour needed help with some heavy work in her garden. Then lunch. Maybe tomorrow. (is that saturday ?) The restaurant is well known to local builders and tradespeople. Every day they have a fixed menu of four courses with wine and coffee for about £6. (Actually, almost everytime we go there we meet our accountant lunching with his secretary. Thinks) We usually do the fixed menu and it's pretty good. Have known the owners, Thierry and Anne since they bought the place about ten years ago. They do the catering at our biennial barbecues. (whole village comes, it seems) and we were at the christening of their two kids. I think I've now gone past the "snooze" state. (mildly scatalogical expression !) Merv

Posted By Alexander Falconer Methinks I like the sound of Merv's lifestyle. At the ripe old age of 42, wonder If I am still young enough for a change (or is it a mid-life crisis!). Can only think about opening the 12 year old Glen Moray (or will I finally decide to open that 30 year old Glenfiddich once and for all), add a splash of water and relax with the thought its Friday after all!

Posted By Mark Talbot Ahh... the slip shows :-)

Posted By Paul Water?? with Glenfiddich?? you heathen! *shakes head..

Posted By gham 50cm is that 19" and 9/10ths, do they have a conversion chart or do you have to do it in your head

Posted By Alexander Falconer The whisky experience and tour on Edinburgh's Royal Mile is worth every penny and you learn the history, the art of making, and blending and even get a free sample at the end of th experience (sad to say it was a Teachers blend)

Posted By MarkJAWatkins Big whiskey drinker myself there are some right gems out there and some real stinkers. Coming from the Speyside/moray area of Scotland I prefer a nice Aberlour malt (even the 10 year old is good) Glenlivet is very nice. Not a huge fan of the "peaty" kinds like Ardbeg...yyuuckk! Just away to have a little Cardhu as I mastermind my domination of...my garden! yippee! B&Q here I come. Regards, Mark

Posted By Merv Newman Goodness ! Whats' a cmiosh badge going for on e-bay ? I've got one that has NEVER been worn. Actually my usual apperatif in an hotel is usually Aberlour, sans glace of course. Bowmore is hard to come by here. Just looking at the few bottles of whiskey we keep on the office shelf (50 cms away from this computer) and there are (in increasing order of quality) Canadian Club 12yr old, Dimple Haig 15 yr old, Johny Walker "Celebrity", Cardhu 12 yr old and a Bowmore (nearly empty) Once did a lot of work at a Scottish paper mill (Aberdeen, you know who you are, John) They have their own small hotel for visitors, maybe 6 rooms, brilliant breakfasts and a free bar. Bar was mainly about 30 different whiskeys. I was working with a Belgian colleague. First week we started top left. Next visit we could not remember how far we had got so re-started bottom right. I do remember (if not much else) that there was one called "As we make it". 57% alcohol. I also remember that the mill manager wore a kilt on ceremonial occasions. Didn't ask if there was anything worn underneath. Sharing information ? That is the whole idea of this forum. And if, in the future, someone asks me a question, I will try to come up with an answer and not necessarily attribute it to a particular source. Maybe it comes from here, maybe from the HSE site, maybe from elsewhere on the internet. As an example, we were once asked to include HACCP in an audit. (wossat ?) Research on the internet, sites in USA, UK and Europe. Bought a text book from one of them, developed a check list and did the audits. Looked in and under all the fridges and cupboards, checked the cold chain records, inspected the drains, cutlery, plates and extractions, and the rubbish bins and the work stations, and chatted up the waitresses (clean hands, no make-up) etc. Happy client. (audits also included checking out bars, restaurants and swimming pools. Happy consultants) I suppose someone will moan that as we have not taken a training course and do not have a certificate we are not qualified to do anything on HACCP. But I can talk bacteriology, ptomaine poisoning, salmonella, listeria and pasturella pestis (not a food related disease) with most H&S people. And I know how many doors the kitchen needs. So there. And the hammock got a bit chilly around midnight. Merv

Posted By Raymond Rapp A while ago a chap contacted me direct for some h&s documentation for a 'third party' and although not convinced of the legitimacy of the request I sent it. I noticed from his email that he was involved in 'safety consultancy' and enquired as to his business. It turns out he specialised in fire safety. Therefore, I asked if he would reciprocrate and send me some material. He duly obliged and sent me a wealth of excellent documentation. The moral of the story - don't judge a book by its cover. Regards Ray

Posted By Dave Wilson Not this old chestnut!!!!!!! If a 'professional' H&S Consultancy has to come on to this chat room to get info and advice and freebies then you are NOT a Respected Professional H&S Consultancy as you should have access to this without trying to get it FREE!!! Thats the point! in ONE. People from this chat area have been known in the past to come across info which is obviously their own which was given / sent etc as a favour to help out, this then turns up in H&S Consultancies Briefings, Notes, Presentations etc and passes of as their own. Whould that pee you off??? If a H&S consultancy knew you were using their stuff without agreement (Payment) they would hit the roof and chase you into court, so why is the other way round accepted. If you do not know how to access info or have access to it either HSE (Free) or Barbour TI (Cost) etc etc as a H&S Consultant then ask for it at IOSH!! Some sucker will always provide.