Posted By Philip McAleenan Mr Wilson, I know of no-one who is omniscient, whether consultant or practitioner, thus people will always have the requirement to seek further information when they come across situations where the appreciate their knowledge is insufficient. If they can obtain in for free, what’s the problem, especially if there are those who have the magnanimity and the personal security to be willing to offer it freely? And as to the rationale of your argument regarding professionals, surely the same rationale will apply to professional safety practitioners, or are they a breed apart, permitted to obtain free information for their employers without criticism or objection? Those who would plagiarise information freely given, whether they are consultants or employees, and pass it onto their clients or their employers as their own or without credit to the supplier, are maybe overstepping the mark. And if they are found out, the provider is free to pursue them to court or not as is their wont. However, your statement that those who provide information freely are “suckers” is highly insulting and runs contrary to the Code of Conduct established by IOSH. So chill out and leave those who are generous enough to provide information to others alone. Regards, Philip McAleenan

Posted By Merv Newman And another thought. I always give client safety people a list of safety web sites (including iosh) where they can find information for themselves. Without paying me for a day or so of research. They very rarely do though. Why not ? Merv

Posted By Ron Young Merv, just had to mention that whisky lover you may be, you won't win any plaudits from us Jocks when you continue to call Scotch Whisky "whiskey"... Slainte!

Posted By J Knight Just a couple of points from the above; yes employers (or clients if you're one of the happy band of the elf(nsafety)-employed out there) could look up the information for themselves, but like employers do mostly they pay somebody else to do that for them - us! And if they did look it up themselves it's sometimes hard to understand what it means unless you're used to interpreting that kind of stuff and can put it in context. I saw somebody wearing an IOSH lapel badge at a networking meeting in Hull; was a lovely if chilly early winter day and the Humber was mediterranean blue; pity it wasn't mediterranean warm (though to be honest I didn't try it, I just made a judgment based on my knowledge and experience, I could have been wrong). Keep sharing folks, it could help in keeping people safe, John

Posted By garyh I agree that we are too open in many ways as a "profession". However I note something else - that many (not all, but too many!) people express their opinions in this forum as FACT. This may happen with several different people giving different opinions, all given as being THE CORRECT SOLUTION. Interesting!

Posted By Robert K Lewis Looking at all the whisky lovers on this site perhaps a new SG is called for. I can also vouch for the Wee Dram Shop in Bakewell. Nothing but whisky and many up for sampling - non drivers only- and a wealth of advice and information. Maybe that will get me a free bottle some time!!!? I must admit to being careful in giving away information and need to have more background information before I do so. But then the above is feely offered. It is however a difficult balance to strike. Bob

Posted By Dave Wilson Touchy! For those of you who know me I give stuff away on a regular basis, and still do on this chat room, however there are very unscrupulous people who use this resource for their own ends and will blatantly plagarise and make a few quid in doing so. I never at any time tarred all consultants / chat members with the same brush, I have poked my head above the snow trench and I stand by what I have said, if you do not agree fine have your say, however I am entitled to my say and I really do not care if you do or do not agree. Just be careful of who you are sending stuff too especially people who do not let you have access to their email, it may reveal their H&S Consultancies address!! and we have been through that AIIRSM etc. ( it may also be that they get spam and rude responses as well so I havent tarred all of you there either) Electronic transfer is the new cyber theft! and when it happens to you, and it will remember this thread!

Posted By Merv Newman I think Ian is a person to whom I WOULD give free advice. He has declared his position, a beginner (no insult intended, just acknowledgement) He is NOT a "consultant" and, on occasion, he may ask for help in doing a good job. He MIGHT get a payrise if his stats are better this year than last year (they had better be or I will want to know why) but that will not be just because of the help he gets from us. It takes more than that. This evening a Lady has requested help (different thread) in setting up a website. Photos, case histories and so on. My apologies but I will not offer any help. Someone setting up as a consultant should already have a solid background, (which she may have, I accept) A fund of stories and anecdotes (which she may have, I accept) and a library of photographes (which she does not appear to have) After four years as a salaried consultant, before I went "independant" I had "visited" maybe 20 sites and had hundreds of photos. And I can still telll you stories about my first ever site visit as a consultant (Shell Chimie, Berre l'étang) Including the one about the fire chief in tears. I did 14 years (or was it 114 ? The latter I think) as plant HSE. Two plants, one English, one French. Later had to work with Dutch, (including Fresians) English (especially those in Hemel Hempstead and Bristol), Scots, Germans, Belgians (Walloons and Flamands), Americans and Swiss (French and Switzerdeutsch. No Romansch). Nowadays it includes North and South Africa and points East. Mining, Paper making, Plastics synthesis and conversion, engineering, automobiles, founderies, ball bearings, detergents, pesticides .... If only this site had existed then I just know I could have done a better job. Oh. Nearly forgot. This week's theme : Lady's underwear. Haven't seen ANY today. And then animal feed additives on thursday. Thanks for ALL the fish (Douglas Adams) Greying wolf (actually, my CB call sign is "Le Préventeur" Maybe I should change it to "Loup Grisant") Merv to the rest of you No idea what's for dinner tonight. It's not my turn. Last night was shepherd's pie (last of the roast lamb, onions and lots of thyme ; Tarte Berger. Cotes du Rhone to use up) A pork chop would be nice. Maybe with a mustard sauce. And purée de pommes avec echalottes. Beaujolais ?

Posted By Dave Wilson For the record I am not against helping or giving info, what I object to is people who should know this, or know where to get it as part of their job but do not / do not know where / to lazy / and relying on the forum good nature. I have sent stuff to someone only yesterday as I know it will help them.

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith How many of you have sought your employer’s consent before giving any documents, power point presentations etc away. My concern on this process has always been who legally owns the intellectual property, which you may have created. In addition to this, there may also be a liability issue. Miss-using shared information particularly if you are not acknowledging the original author is arguably plagiarism, which I believe is unprofessional. In my experience, it is only by taking time to develop our own documentation, do we develop the experience and competence which enable us to undertake some of the more complex professional tasks that we eventually have to do.

Posted By Merv Newman Aaron makes two points, the first is who owns the information. Legally it is normally our employer. Specifically if the information was developed "in the course of" our employ. And he is quite right, we should ask for guidelines. Sharing the odd audit or RA form May very well be acceptable. But scanning the safety manual is probably a no-no. Mind you, last time I had an employer I don't think the WWW existed. We did have e-mail but limited to other employees of our company. His second point, on the value of developing your own material, is equally valid. As I have said above (I think) it may take a lot of research (including google and Jeeves and asking questions here) to help me build the wheel. But that wheel is going to be MY wheel. Respondants other than Aaron : And as for not being too proud to ask for help ; Well, I am a bit. (coprolithic expletive deleted) I'm a CONSULTANT (nearly missspelled that) dammit. My expertise is limited but with a bit of experience behind it. I don't know everything about everything but I am paid to know one hell of a lot about what I say I know. I shouldn't have to ask for help. But every now and then the mind boggles. (RAs ok. Emergency situation DRAs ok. But how do you translate that to the plumber ? ) Enough. I will continue to offer help to those I (capital I) think deserve it. Which mainly includes struggling beginners and/or people stuck in an hotel unable to get to their files. Been there, done that. T-shirt has moth-holes. Merv. prototype demonstrations start in 1/2 hour. Byeee.

Posted By d88 well most of the points have been raised & discussed so that relegates me to the other important thing discussed - whisky . If you really want to sample something new then try a cask strength malt ( around 60 -70 % volume).Water it down to your own preferred strength then lie back and enjoy .... I'd recomend the 23 year old Linkwood for starters. And don't knock malt blends either .. well the quality ones that is. There are some excellent malt blends around like the Johnnie Walker Blue label or Gold label . Hard to find but it helps when you know someone who works for a whisky distillery !! If any of the whisky manufacturers are looking for H & S staff then please inform me !!

Posted By Hilary Charlton I read the first set of comments with interest, shot to the bottom of the page and found it was all about whisky - interesting turn of events! I have found very interesting snippets just from reading threads on this site - read one this morning - difference between micron size for inhalable and respirable - didn't know that, but now I do. I have received excellent help and hope that I have given likewise through this medium and I say - keep it up and keep the flow going - good health and safety can only benefit all of us at the end of the day and it would be petty to withhold information that may stop some unsuspecting soul from being seriously injured or perhaps even killed because someone asked for advice and we were all too churlish to give it. Hilary

Posted By MarkJAWatkins In response to earlier comment about blends. The gold label johnny walker is good for its age and price but the blue label is overpriced at £155 per bottle for a very mediocre drink. Enjoy the weekend everybody.