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#1 Posted : 24 April 2006 12:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adele Tidball Hello, I work in an office and people like to decorate the ceiling when it is a special occasion such as Birthdays, Leaving Do, Easter, Xmas etc. When I first started this role employees stood on desks and hung decorations, I have since requested that this no longer happens. However I am now in a situation where stepladders are being requested and due to the Working at Height Regulations I am very reluctant to condone this(although it does happen). Are there any other H & S officers that have a similar situation in their office? Has anyone found an alternative to decorate desks without the use of hanging anything from the ceiling. I do not want to appear a grouch and the reason they are doing this is to improve staff morale for team incentives. Any assistance with this would be appreciated. Adele
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#2 Posted : 24 April 2006 12:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight This is one of those cases where WAHR regs might well say that a stepladder is not the most appropriate platform for the work. So, do your risk assessment; but consider the effect on morale (and therefore on accident rates and absenteeism) of not allowing decorations, as presumably nobody is going to pay for tower scaffolding for this. Me I'd find some way to let them do it while making reducing risk ALARP, John
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#3 Posted : 24 April 2006 12:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze My gut feeling is that ladders are acceptable in this sort of circumstance. The whole point of the Regs was not to ban working from ladders, but rather to force users to consider if ladders were the most appropriate means of safe working at height. However, it does depend on whether your employer sees decorationg the area above a desk space of a leaving employee as part of the job description - which is another issue altogether...
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#4 Posted : 24 April 2006 12:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze I think John and I are comming to a similar conclusion here but with different emphases. Another thing you would need to consider as part of your assessment is what they would use in the absence of stepladders. Cluttered desks? Wheeled computer chairs? Suddenly, stepladders seem preferable and acceptable.
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#5 Posted : 24 April 2006 12:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Hi Jonathon, Stepladders might be OK, but it would depend on how much stretching and reaching is involved which is why I'm not sure. But in any event, banning office bunting might be seen as serious elf'n'safety. One thing I've realised we don't know is - how high are the ceilings? Some of our offices are in stately homes and the ceilings are a good 6-7 metres, which would make ladders decidedly dodgy. Still wouldn't ban it though, John
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#6 Posted : 24 April 2006 12:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Fair point John, whcih is why Adele needs to do the assessment herself. Our office ceilings are about 3m high.
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#7 Posted : 24 April 2006 12:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Hi Jonathon, The number of times I've seen three metre high shelves in places where the only 'access equipment' is a swivel chair. I do wonder how all the stuff gets up there...:-) John
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#8 Posted : 24 April 2006 13:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adele Tidball Thank you both, the ceilings are standard about 3 meters. Your comments are noted do you think that they will need to attend training sessions or am I able to provide Best Practice notes and have them sign that I have advised them of the rights/wrongs of the use of stepladders?
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#9 Posted : 24 April 2006 13:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze In our place they all know that climbing on swivel chairs is not safe, I've drummed that one in to them (staff induction - example of misuse of equipment). So they'd probably just climb the shelving instead! 8-l
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#10 Posted : 24 April 2006 13:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Adele, I think I'd want to see them do it, just providing notes isn't a good idea as you have no idae whether they have read or used them or not, and the requirement under the Act is for training to be effective. It doesn't have to be a big full on session; they will be using stepladders in one environment for one set of purposes, so a short workshop or toolbox talk will probably do it, plus some observation if you possibly can, John
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#11 Posted : 24 April 2006 13:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze It really does depend on staff competence. If you are satisfied a particular staff member is competent to do the task, then fine. If not get somone else to do it. Johns suggestion is a practical way of doing this. Some staff have no problems and are safe workers, others I would have grave doubts about leaving alone with a packet of crayons.
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#12 Posted : 24 April 2006 14:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Bish Regardless of how they reach the ceiling - standing on steps, desk top or even a swivel chair (???) make sure they look above them first. I witnessed and stopped an employee who was about to climb a step ladder to fix balloons to the ceiling. The steps were in a good and secure condition and did not cause an obstruction or hazard. Problem was that they had been put directly under a (working) ceiling fan !!! Also need to check if there are any alarm sensors in the area - that will be triggered by movement of a deflating balloon or a banner moving in a breeze
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#13 Posted : 24 April 2006 14:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Young Do you have a Facilities team or caretakers to do the work for you? If not it has to be down to correct use of safe ladders.
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#14 Posted : 24 April 2006 22:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rob Yuill Are we getting just a tad paranoid here? Come on guys, used correctly step ladders are probably the most effective means of accessing low heights for minor, light, short duration jobs available. Providing the manufacturer's infomation is followed - Steps fully open, leg restraints locked or fully extended, don't work off the top platform or top step, don't overreach sideways, etc, etc - they are fine. Or perhaps under CDM, Designers should be specifying lower ceilings so if we employ only 6 foot plus persons we wouldn't need access equipment! Or would that be discrimitory? All forms of access equipment carry risk when in use, as long as you have correctly identified all the elements of the task, assessed the associated risks and made your choice based on what is suitable to mitigate risk, then that is all we can ask. But please don't use step ladders positioned inside the sweep of a (closed) door! Also, do not ask about treble 20 foot wooden extending ladders!! Well it was 20 years ago!! Rob
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#15 Posted : 25 April 2006 10:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Thompson CMIOSH I find that a tall worker with a bit of blue tac on the end of a ruler ususally reaches most ceilings. Presumably you are not hanging chandelieres? no spell check. Another consideration is the interface with alarm systems you need to check that anything hung does not interfere with them. Regards Bob
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#16 Posted : 25 April 2006 13:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight No, we're not getting paranoid; both Jonathon and I agree that stepladders will do - I expressed doubts as to whether they are ideal, but any other solution would be OTT and not to do it would impact on morale, John
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#17 Posted : 25 April 2006 17:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt I'm with Bob Thompson CMIOSH on this one. Perfect exemplar of the WAHR eliminate the need to W@H, as long as the ruler is long enough to prevent poor posture by arms above shoulder. You could turn this into a training session, most inventive way to erect decos without leaving the floor Hmm wheres my ballista. Jeff
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#18 Posted : 25 April 2006 19:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By TBC Fire hazards the lot of them - bah hum bug. Yes - they will set off motion alarm systems and they are or can be an aid to the spread of fire as well as the rest, Working at Height etc. Desk decorations and on dividing panels only and if lights are used - PAT tested. Yes - I know offices and call centres love their paper plastered all over for team things and promotions, but Fire and H&S must be considered first.
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#19 Posted : 26 April 2006 06:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman A couple of points : (change that to "a few") "decorating the office" may not be in the job description but if it is "normal and long-standing practice" then it might just as well be. Next, if properly used then step ladders are ok. Though I like the ruler and blue tack methodology. Then, why not just decorate the walls and recipient's desk ? Finally, I have a recent photo (can't offer it, camera was on high definition as part of prep for training programme, 2.5 Mb) of a man standing on the top "step" of a step ladder. High circulation area, no warnings or barrier. Last thought : how much booze is consumed on these occasions ? At my last leaving party I had to pay for the "free" bar ! Normal and long-standing practice. Mild nostalgic expletive deleted Greying wolf Hey ho. back to the underwear. MD has lots of posters advertising the products in his office and board conference room. And, nobless oblige, I have to go to a review of next season's prototypes this afternoon. Thursday its the cattle cake and pig swill (sovesso) plant. Who'd want to be a consultant.
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#20 Posted : 26 April 2006 07:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Louis Coleiro It would be easy if a set up is installed on all corners of the office. The set up will be there all year round and when the birthday, christmas or any other occasion comes it will be lowered and decorated according to your pleasure, then pulled back into place and then the same to remove decorations. you will avoid any use of ladders or any uneasy postures as the orks can be carried out at table height.
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