Posted By Merv Newman Yeah, don't we know it. iPods may be ok in production/repetitive action type scenarios but someone who needs to hear what his machine is doing should be listening to it. Though the ban, if necessary, should be put into writing. Did some work in a Dutch factory where machine noises were just ok but employee radios were turned up to get over the ambient. Banning radios was not good for employee relations but had to do it. Also visited a "white van" construction plant. One of the toughest jobs, done by the toughest and most tatooed crews, was mating engines to front axles. Their CD player was on "RAM-DAM" - classical music with MUSCLE. Beethoven's Fifth, Mussorgskie's (?) "Hall of the mountain King", "Night on a bare mountain" Stravinski's "Rite of Spring" Great stuff. Bought the CD for the car. What I really really don't like on the production floor are portable telephones. Ok for supervisors but too distracting for employees. Merv

Posted By David P. Johnson UK 5th Generation iPods (the new 30gb and 60gb models in white and black that also do videos and photos) can have their volume levels limited at anything up to 140db with free software available from Apple. You could allow their use provided they are configured with an appropriate maximum sound level perhaps - that way ensuring that they do not potentially cause problems with hearing and noise limits. Additionally, you are able to get blue-tooth enabled headphones for the iPod that are linked to devices and cut out the sound completely when triggered. They were designed so you could have your music cut out when your phone rings so you wouldn't miss your call. With appropriate adaptions to your fire/evacuation alarms these devices could be used to ensure the iPod cuts out in the event of the alarm being raised, therefore not preventing safe evacuation as may be necessary. Drop me an email for details of the products, I can send yo

Posted By Jeffrey Watt John 20 robotic lathes-85dBA , one CD player in the corner-90dBA so we can hear it over the lathes and ear defenders. I like the iPod software limiter but what a complete nightmare to manage when new people start or John covers Jims shift and he brings his generic MP3 player in from home for the first time. We had Peltor radio ear defenders on an induction loop in the ceiling set for three radio stations selectable from the head set. Fire alarm and tanoy were linked into the system, people were very happy with them as the work was pretty boring. A few managers had the gripe "but the operators need to hear the machines when X happens " so we put beacons on the machine to tell the people that it was empty/full/ready/broke etc. Wasn't perfect but it was acceptable. With all the technological strides we make do not fret, human nature will keep this profession alive for ever. Jeff

Posted By John Lewis Thanks for your esponses to my thread. It was a little rambly I know, borne of annoyance at some of the rubbish that gets brought to my door. I will be contacting some of you directly. Best Regards John

Posted By David P. Johnson I believe that extensive study has been made on the use of music as a motivator in the work and academic enivronments, and it was statistically proven that listening to enjoyable music can actually improve concentration and work efficiency. I know for a fact that I think a lot more clearly, and work a lot more quickly, for that matter, with Mozart pumping out of my laptop. Having said that though, I'm quite certainly on the 'Y' side of McGregors theory... Dave

Posted By garyh "Ipods on the shop floor". I thought it was a record by Sophie Ellis Bextor.....................

Posted By peter gotch re David P.'s posting, back in the days of the USSR, they found that background music increased production but that after an hour or so, this declined, so they ended up switching it on and off at roughly hourly intervals, thereby getting increased production for half the day. Regards, Peter

Posted By Saracen11 Hi John, if you can get hold of a copy of “HSG 48 - Reducing error and influencing behaviour.” It’ll direct you to the answer you need. If left to me, I’d ban anything (AFARP) that might break the concentration of a worker if it puts him at risk of injury due to a distraction… Regards

Posted By Andrew Longhurst Dear all, No question here - ban all headphone music systems (i-pod or whatever) from the workplace. Coming from a professional audio and CE dev background I am surprised that any device with headphones is allowed in any workplace. The suggestion that individuals using these devices should have levels set and calibrated by a supervisor or line manager ignores two significant points - almost no level set can be guaranteed as the levels can increase or decrease massively as described below. Secondly, this ignores the lifestyle issue that says who wears or uses what. Sanctioning the use of any device, even if monitored, will not prevent the owners changing these settings or using a second device that is not limited. Constant monitoring is neither practical nor accurate enough to determine actual values - again see below. The SPLs can change by as much as 30 db depending on the position of the headphone/IE device. Also, the measurement of actual SPL in ear rather than theoretical values can be, and often is, widely inaccurate given to accumulative properties of an enclosed space with constantly varying reflective and absortive properties. The upshot of this is that actual SPLs in the middle ear can be dangerously high over a long period of time leading to permanent cochleal damage. Many argue that tape based Walkman devices have been used for 30 years without a significant rise in hearing damage. However, the technologies used have improved massively with huge impprovements in performance (sic) of headphones and the driver amps delivering ever louder, cleaner signals. Added to this the prevalence for most contemporary recordings to be compressed to a point where the perceived level and RMS is up to 15 db higher than was once the norm. This really is a H&S issue that needs a firm lead. audio delivered by headphones must be banned in the workplace and, if I had my way, would also be banned for the under 16's. Rant over.

Posted By Andrew Longhurst I know - I get this reaction whenever I get on my high horse about it but it is a serious actual threat, not a vague theoretical possibility. Why do we not allow those under 16 to smoke? These device do damage hearing and the damage is more likely in the young due to usage habits. Damage is being done...

Posted By Andrew Longhurst Actually the test is not scientific as the level you are measuring is not in the confined acoustic space where the audio is reproduced and therefore any accumulative, reflective or absorptive variables that can both INCEASE and decrease the SPL cannot be measured. Measurement of the point source only tells you the level in an unimpeded non reflective environment at the point of emission - it also does not measure the various phase or wavelength variations thst will cause different measurements at different (micro) distances and at different angles of measurement to the radiant surface. Basically the size of the ear canal is tiny and the distances for sound to travel equally so. Manufacturers know this and have spent fortunes researching optimum materials and wavelengths guides to deliver 'optimum' audio quality in this environment. Holding a sound measurement device against one does not qualify as scientific unless the environment s monitored and noted, the angle, inclination and distance measured and then the conditions in which the headphones are deployed reproduced absolutely.

Posted By Dave Wilson Andrew, very well presented matey, however I feel that if I did your schpeel and did the microphone bit to a group of 13 year olds I WILL GURANTEE that they will think you are a nutter after the first couple of words and will say "whats that machine do mate". Horses for courses I think.

Posted By Joe McCluskey Sorry for the late input but : Forget about noise levels etc, ( althugh this may be considered as " not work related " ) the fact is that they should not be allowed purely on safety grounds including : > Loss of concentration or focus > Possible misreading of signals or machine noise > Possible distraction from traffic dangers > Rhythmic sensations may induce a " hypnotic " state in relation to the work - eg trying to carry out a task in time to the music - sounds daft but does occur and could lead to short cutting or going to fast etc... > Dangly wires etc could get caught up in machinery Too dodgy and should be consigned to the workers locker - beside the mobile phone. Joe

Posted By Philip McAleenan John, headphone limiters information on this pdf file, http://www.canford.co.uk...rces/catdetails/2864.pdf Philip

Posted By Andrew Longhurst Limiters - for headphones or otherwise, limit the absolute voltage or power of the signal being output - not necessarily the perceived or received volume. Given the nature of the highly compressed audio signals that abound the RMS can be as much as 15db louder than traditional non-compressed audio peaking at 0db. Additionally, and sorry to labour this point, but the position in or near the ear-canal can profoundly alter the levels both up and down and lead to potential hearing damage. One other point of note is that modern in ear-canal phones block the canal thus preventing the natural recovery of the middle and inner ear from high SPLs that breaks from such exposure engender - such breaks being recommended regularly. Andrew