Posted By phil beresford Does anyone know of any figures published which say how much a particular company spends on H&S as a % of income or turnover. Obviously this will vary vastly between organisations with high risk businesses spending more than lower risk ones. It has generated an interesting discussion at work just wondered if anyone had ever put any numbers to it.

Posted By John Murgatroyd http://www.hse.gov.uk/businessbenefits/index.htm http://www.gnn.gov.uk/co...reaID=2&ReleaseID=195096 http://www.edp-uk.com/ne...rs/healthsafetycosts.htm But you can also have the costs calculated for you:http://www.hse.gov.uk/costs/index.asp

Posted By Andrew Longhurst What an excellent topic. I too would be interested but would like to be able to contextualise any figure by making comparisons to spends for HR (particularly training), Sales and Marketing, any private medical cover and , lastly, pension provisions. I am hoping that direct comparisons between companies will provide corroborative data to support the contention that those deploying H&S and training actively are financially healthier, more competitive organisations. If I come across any such data I shall certainly let the list know. Andrew

Posted By Andrew Longhurst Hi Mark, There are some interesting case studies on the HSE site with one in particular relating to the construction industry. The stats quoted suggest they view the H&S effort as an embedded operational cost but when contactced directly they suggested, as part of their participation in the HSE's Good Neighbour initiative, that the breakouts for the different cost centres, including H&S, woukldn't be hard to do nor would a comparison of before they instituted this regime and after. The real difficulty was whether this info was commercially sensitive if released into the public domain. For my part, I am trying to understand what degree of importance is attached to H&S through looking at both year on year spend and through comparison to other budgets. If enough granularity of data from different industry sectors and different approaches to H&S culture is available it may help me understand some of the financial drivers and therefore the barriers to imbueing a culture of H&S. I realise the financial data are not the whole picture, indeed I am in constant discussion with organisations as regards their stated reasons, but the finacail data may prove a useful additional tool when examining this area. Regards Andrew

Posted By AlB As the owner of a well known budget airline company once said: "You think health and safety is expensive - try having an accident!" Enough said!

Posted By Merv Newman To go back to the answer I gave a week or two back - during the 16 years I was plant H&S there was never a "safety" budget. My boss was HR manager so my salary came from his budget. Other H&S subjects were integrated into production/management budgets. PPE was a production cost just like spare parts. Machine guarding or whatever were in design and purchase specs. Extinguishers and emergency showers were part of the building fabric same as doors and windows and looked after by maintenance. Periodic tests of lifting gear and electrics were also a maintenance responsibility. The few bits of kit I did require (air sampling pump, noise meter) were purchased by medical, which was also in the HR budget. Total integration. And only one LTI in 16 years So check out the "average" cost (including "indirect") of a "normal" accident. Multiply that by your current LTI rate. Divide that by your salary (or just subtract it) and show your boss how much H&S can really be worth to his bottom line if only he would let you get on with your job and back you up when the accountant starts whinging. Merv Now I've got to shovel a cubic meter of compost out of the trailor.

Posted By Merv Newman Tom, I'll be sending you a request by e-mail in a moment. In the meantime another, sometimes quite startling calculation, is to take the "average" cost of a "normal" LTI and then the NET profit on each of whatever widgets the company is manufacturing. (if it is a production industry) or of an hour of work if it is a service industry. Then calculate how many widgets or hours-of-work are required just to break even on ONE LTI. I work with a company that makes 2 500 cars a day. 0.8 cars per minute on each of two production lines. A "normal" accident can shut a line for maybe 30 minutes. That means the net profit from 24 cars is "lost". (plus all the other direct and indirect costs) Numbers like that tend to concentrate management minds on prevention of accidents. A "normal" accident. One that causes no more than up to a few days or weeks of lost time. Specifically excludes short term or permanent disabling or fatal injuries. Merv