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Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH
Heres an interesting one.
A person starts up their own make up range, they employ a PR company to do the products launch.
The owner takes on other SELF EMPLOYED staff to carry out admin duties from their own homes, IR 35 does not come into effect due to the fact that the admin staff are working for other company's at the same time.
The owner then opens a stand inside a very large department store retailers outlet, the persons employed instore are both partime and both just happen to be self employed.
The Owner then decides to go nation wide, include both Northern and Southern Ireland, all operatives are, once again self employed, training in selling the product has been carried out, the makeup demonstrations take place in somebodys private house. Has the owner any duty of care to these self employed persons?
Products do comply to all BS requirements, products total weight including make up box is 7.5kgs.
All comments are welcomed.
Regards
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Posted By Merv Newman
Jonathan,
this is one of the situations for which I propose that you do your own research and come up with your own answer.
If you are a competent person then you should be able to deal with this.
Some people may say I'm being sniffy, or stuffy, or even drunk (1/2 bottle of beaujolais)
And an aberlour.
But please, for your own personal development, work it through.
I do hope you get some help from other respondants, but the most valuable exercise for you is to come up with your own solution to the question.
Does this dress make me look like Clare Rainer ? (got some free samples from the lady's underwear site last week. But they don't go with my eyes)
Merv
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Posted By Johnpett
Why has the above bothered to write this dribble, you could say that for every single question on here do your own work it’s a help line divvvvie? what sort of reply is that.
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Posted By DJ
Johnpett, like many others here I would be far more inclined to help him if he had done his own research and wanted us to confirm he had the right answer.
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Posted By Peter Longworth
"But please, for your own personal development, work it through."
That has got to be the most patronising reply I have ever heard on this forum.
The guy has posed a question to which I certainly would like to hear the answer, or at least some informed opinion. Anyone who doesn't want to contribute to the thread the answer is simple. Leave it alone.
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Posted By Jim Walker
Merv, most uncharacteristic of you - a drink too far maybe?
When I'm working something though and developing personally, I tend to consult expert opinion, where better to do it than here?
Also I consult (lurk on) this site for answers to questions posed by others and in doing so have learned more than the 1000s pounds worth of courses I've attended.
I'd be interested in answers too, not just the H&S angles but employment law issues too.
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Posted By Bob Youel
Large construction companies and others tried this trick many years ago! they came stuck re N-Insurance payments, social security areas, tax liabilities & pensions - do not remember if H&S was called into play
the term 'self employed' means many differing things to many
different people - its even been tried where people used children in their businesses
note the 'control' test - the more 'control' the less 'self- employed'
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Posted By JAI
firstly who provideds the training and pays for it?
secondly who owns the stand in the shop or pays the rent?
although workers are self employed, the owner must direct them in locations to work does he supply the products to sell and then take a markup or does the agent buy the goods off him
gut feeling is there is some direction from the owner so a duty of care must be in there
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Posted By Frank Hallett
Jonathon - I would suggest that you propose to the client[?] that they franchise it. This will remove the overwhelming majority of potential H&S etc issues for the principal.
It will also provide an additional revenue source. Can I have a percentage of the fee please 'cos I provided a supportive and practicable answer?
Frank Hallett
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Posted By unique
I completely agree with Merv, I know that the forum does exist to provide help and support to other practitioners but there are too many lazy requests for help. It sometimes makes me wonder about the standard of some people who are employed to provide advice.
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Posted By Peter Longworth
So where is the lazy request for help here? The post originator set out a scenario and asked for comments. I repeat what I said before, as with any thread on this forum, anyone who doesn't want to contribute can leave the thread alone
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Posted By gham
Judging from previous posts i am almost certain that the original poster (Johnathan) does have and answer. Has anyone heard of seeking a second opinion, there is no harm in it. If not only to confirm for himself there may also be those who have come across this sort of thing before and are aware of any pitfall he may have over looked
Why does it have to end in tears!!!!
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Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH
I would like to thank most of you for your replies, Yes I do have the answer, the duty of care is quite simple as the nose on your face.
The whole point of a discussion forum is to discuss and seek others valid points of view. NOT a place to make some cheap and child like remarks.
Regards
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