Posted By Salus Paul, you should not be thinking that you may be offensive to others by asking a perfectly normal question.

Posted By Jonathan Breeze Yes, I am! No, I don't have a fish badge, wear cardigans or listen to Cliff Richard. And shock horror, I have been known to be rude to people! Other than that I think Rob's comments are fairly valid. Why you want to know?

Posted By Robert K Lewis Jonathan But does that mean Mass or holy communion?:-) I think Paul is feeling as though we do not talk enough about where we come from. Mine is the absolute sanctity of life even when the Pro-choice lobby start to throw their brick bats. One view is also that it can have a significant impact on the manner with which we approach problems. This is a valid question from this perspective and probably worthy of some detailed research. Social doctrines and beliefs are a very necessary part of a practitioners armoury - the problem is that politicians have hi-jacked much of this and turned it into secular dogmas. The problem then is that the outer frame of reference is lost and it becomes a question of "what is best for me" type thinking. Bob

Posted By Jonathan Breeze Adressing Bob's wider comments, religion (all types), faith and creed are big influencing factors on individuals and their behaviour whether they be h&s prectitioners or not. Yet a brief scan of the studies done on such influencing factors suggests that none have specifically considered religion focussing more on environment, personality genes etc. (tho' I could be wrong here). This causes me to think you have a very valid point in your last paragraph Bob. It appears that the outer frames of reference have been or are in the process of being lost in health & safety as concepts such as 'truth' and 'justice' give way to 'self-interest' and 'acquisitiveness'. Hmm...

Posted By Oil Man Good to here of other Christians in the job. I am an Evengelical Baptist. Am currently working through risk assessments, H&S policy etc for my church. Hard work trying to get people to get involved, in my day job everyone is interested in safety because of the environment but it has been quite an eye opener to see what other people are like when it comes to safety. People that have been in employment for many years but dont have a clue about safety - even very basic stuff. If any Christians out there are responsible or involved in h&S in their church I would love to here from you to exchange ideas etc. Have a great day.

Posted By Liam Mc Conalogue Any thoughts on how the smoking ban may affect current church practices e.g. the burning of incense. I am from the ROI and the smoking ban is in force everywhere but the church- is this not a workplace as well as a place of worship. Especially when you consider the young altar boys& girls, priests and not forgetting the congregation. Now here's a query that may ruffle a few feathers, but please don't take offence, it's not meant that way: as I am a member of Catholic Church community here in the Republic we are all fully aware of the goings on regarding the number of child abuse cases that have happened in the past. Now how do you determine the risk when a lot of unearthly goings on remain kept secret. How can priests/nuns who are convicted of such brutality permitted to remain in the Organisation? Evidently we have breaches of H&S Law as well as Employment Law here but has there been any cases taken by the state to prosecute the organisation for its management failures rather than individuals who have suffered taking proceedings. As I said previously this may annoy a few but I am honestly not intending to offend here. Liam

Posted By Robert K Lewis We could even form an oratory or two and take in the non-orthodox as affiliates!!!:-)I know Liam will understand that one. Talk of the reformation and Cromwell will be banned in the interests of harmony. Bob

Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke hi Sometimes its nice to make polite converstation with others outside the safety sphere, hey we wouldn't want people to think we are boring. I passed an interesting conversation on the Judas scrolls whilst walking around the refinery the other day. Maybe my personailty is partly why I am never looking for work! Or perhaps its the prmoise of a calender. LOL Regards. Linda

Posted By Jonathan Breeze ME, to address some points: "This is a health and safety forum for health and safety professionals and trying to segregate that into those that are christian and those that are not is unprofessional." While I wouldn't couch it in quite those terms, I think you may have a valid point here, which is why I tried to expand the question to include religion as a factor in behavioural based safety. "Religion makes no difference to those who practice health and safety and/or those subject to health and safety." I disagree with this statement precisely because I think religion influences safety attitudes. I have come across fatalistic attitudes towards health and safety in Christians (The Lord's will), Muslims (Inshallah), Buddhists (karma) and those I will describe as Credal Atheists (genetic determinism). "You certainly don't need advice from a christian on how to handle health and safety issues in a christian place of worship." I would certainly agree with Liam on this one - you need to see the bigger picture to understand what is acceptable and what exactly would cause ire. By way of example I would like to direct you to past threads on both incense and lead organ pipes that have been discussed here. In both cases a propsed blanket ban on grounds of "elf 'n' safety" would likely cause somthing not far short of a holy war!

Posted By Martin R. Bessant Paul has asked individuals to contact him directly, and this forum is not the place for religous debate. The Postings have not contributed to Health and Safety so the thread is now locked. Please remember that we are a Professional Body, and whilst I wish Paul every success in his quest, this has to be continued in other places. Martin Bessant - Lead Moderator.