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#1 Posted : 23 May 2006 12:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By James Andrew Scott My workplace takes young people on work experience, these people are 15 years old or older. We are a laboratory site with several labs using ionising radiation, typically Carbon 14. Does anyone know if with a suitable risk assessment it is permisible to allow these people to work-shadow lab workers without actually doing any work but being in the Hot lab with appropriate PPE? I have a feeling that young persons are not allowed to work near radiation. I would welcome someone else's thoughts on this. James
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#2 Posted : 23 May 2006 12:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven You are correct in saying that they are not allowed to work near radiation, also the "young person" might actually come under the definition of a child. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg364.pdf will tell you everything you know, i hope Steve
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#3 Posted : 23 May 2006 12:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze James We would certainly not allow such a placement to knowingly occur if the child is under the minimum school leaving age. By all means show them the process at a distance and talk about the hazards and control measures, but if you're kitting them out in PPE and sending them into the hot lab, then I would suggest they are too close. Check out INDG 364 for a list of proscriptions: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg364.pdf
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#4 Posted : 23 May 2006 12:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Steve beat me to it!
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#5 Posted : 23 May 2006 12:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By James Andrew Scott Thanks guys, you have confirmed what I thought was correct. James
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#6 Posted : 23 May 2006 13:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch Hi James What the relevant regs say is "Subject to paragraph (3), no employer shall employ a young person for work - (a) which is beyond his physical or psychological capacity; (b) involving harmful exposure to agents which are toxic or carcinogenic, cause heritable genetic damage or harm to the unborn child or which in any other way chronically affect human health; (c) involving harmful exposure to radiation; (d) involving the risk of accidents which it may reasonably be assumed cannot be recognised or avoided by young persons owing to their insufficient attention to safety or lack of experience or training; or (e) in which there is a risk to health from - (i) extreme cold or heat; (ii) noise; or (iii) vibration, and in determining whether work will involve harm or risk for the purposes of this paragraph, regard shall be had to the results of the assessment. So it is not a blanket prohibition on work near radiation. If it was you couldn't do work experience in the open air on a farm, cos of the sunlight. So to put it into perspective, you could have someone shadowing a radiographer whilst remaining behind the lead shield at all times and conclude that the risk was so small as to indicate that the work experience did not involve "harmful exposure to radiation". Unless one takes this in context, the list of prohibitions means that you couldn't do work experience in the office because of the noise from the photocopier. Regards, Peter
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#7 Posted : 23 May 2006 14:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker I think there is a minimum age (18 ??)specified in the ionising radiations regs.
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#8 Posted : 23 May 2006 14:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Peter raised a valid point that the devil is in the detail and interpretation. If there was no way an inexperienced trainee could get around the shielding whilst the process was in operation, (e.g. in an interlocked room) then all well and good. However if exposure was possible just by walking around a shield, then no way would I approve that placement as point (d) of the regs quoted by Peter could potentially be breached. Hence my point about wearing PPE while in the 'hot' lab being unacceptable. P.S. - I had assumed from the context that we were talking about Ionising Radiation here. Peter/ Jim do you have a web link to the regs you have referred to?
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#9 Posted : 23 May 2006 14:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker James Will check my copy of IRR tomorrow - it's in my "other" office
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#10 Posted : 23 May 2006 14:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker http://www.opsi.gov.uk/c..._highlighter_first_match Here is regs But ACOP might be more useful Possible the 18 limit is minimum age of classified workers
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#11 Posted : 23 May 2006 15:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Chalkley All, Ionising Radiation Regs 1999, Schedule 4, Part 1, Para 6 '.....the limit on the effective dosefor any person other than an employee or trainee, including any person below the age of 16, shall be 1mSv in any calendar year.' It would appear that this would allow observation so long as the activity has been assessed and does not exceed the above limit. Cheers, Richard.
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#12 Posted : 23 May 2006 16:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/19970135.htm Regards, Peter
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#13 Posted : 23 May 2006 17:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Chalkley Peter, I am guessing that you intend us to take the prohibition on materials which may cause heritable genetic damage to exclude exposure to ionising radiation depite there being a limit set in IRR99? Richard.
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#14 Posted : 23 May 2006 17:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Holland1 Statutory Instrument 1997 No. 135 The Health and Safety (Young Persons) Regulations 1997 A young person on work experience isn't employed, so the above regulations are not applicable. Regards John
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#15 Posted : 23 May 2006 17:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter The 1997 Young Persons Regs were revoked by the 1999 Management Regs and no longer apply, surely. Paul
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#16 Posted : 24 May 2006 07:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Holland1 Paul, Sorry about that I missed that those regulation had been revoked in 1999. However, the employment part of young people in MHSWR 199 stands. I would therefore go along with the previous response from Richard Chalkey that the limit apllied top other people would apply. John
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#17 Posted : 24 May 2006 12:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Holland1 Just to add to this INDG364 The Right Start- Work Experience for young people: Health and Safety Basics for Employers A Child is anyone who has not yet reached the official age at which they may leave school, just before or just after their 16th birthday. (This is often referred to as the minimum school leaving age )MSLA)). Even where a risk assessment has been carried out. Children below the MSLA must never do work involving these risks whether they are employed or under training such as work experience. One of those is exposure to radiation John
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