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#1 Posted : 24 May 2006 20:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jan Moore
I am working with the Home to School transport team (Birmingham City Council) following an HSE hit!
I am picking up on a number problems with the current generic risk assessment and wonder whether anyone else has come across a similar mind bender.
The problem is seat belts in black cabs and private hire vehicles. Am I right to assume that your ordinary cab driver does not require passengers to 'belt up'. This is a major problem with some kids who have a taxi to take them to school. These are mainly children who are physically able bodied but have Aspergers or other behavioural problems. Some have transport provided because they can't be bothered to get up and go to school!
Any help would be appreciated.

Kind regards

Jan
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#2 Posted : 24 May 2006 22:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
Jan,

I have some experience in this area. Passengers are legally required to wear a seat belt. What is more with kids (or others) who may through their disability attack the driver, should wear a restraint harness that properly restrains them so as to ensure the safety of themselves and other road users. Some Taxi companies (Few) provide these as a service but more commonly they are provided from private or public funds and available to the child as they move from vehicle to vehicle. Remember with many of these disorders the duty of care may be extended.

Good luck,

Tony
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#3 Posted : 24 May 2006 22:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karl Newcombe
Jan,

If you work in such an area as looking after children with Aspergers to and from school, I would expect that you should be fully trained on what this disability entails. From reading your post, I can only assume that you don’t understand Aspergers as you would know very well that children with this disability do not have behaviour problems nor do they not go to school because they can’t be bothered to get out of bed! Although it is very important for everyone to wear seat belts it is the driver’s responsibility of all minors under the age of 16 to ensure that they wear seat belts.
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#4 Posted : 25 May 2006 08:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
In my spare time, I am the chair of a club that gives adults with various forms of learning disabilities and handicaps a chance to enjoy a social life one night per week during term times. The club is loosely associated with a local college - past students etc.

Every bus trip that we take them out on has a separate risk assessment to take account of different groups of attendees and their needs. We have wheelchair users, sufferers with Aspergers' syndrome, varying forms of mental and physical disabilities.

The point of this mail is to make Jan aware that all persons who have any form of disability are human beings with particular needs, and these people cannot be pigeon holed into a single assessment of "belt up" or "can't get out of bed in a morning". They may have an eye disorder against daylight or have set routines that they cannot break out of with their conditions - each being an individual.

Back to the college connection - they use two set taxi firms who have in house training to help with student requirements - once training is complete, they have a VERY lucrative contract that no one else can take off them for a set period.

They are also used on our club nights to take our members home and to and from outside social events, pubs, restaurants, ten pin bowling etc, so you can see that it is in THEIR financial interests to keep these contracts.

We, as a club, then also have the knowledge of safe transport and assistance for the members at either end of their journeys.

The taxi firms then use this college training to offer assistance for pupil transportation to feeder schools who have special needs children, and the scheme is monitored thorugh the local LEA.

This scheme works locally for us, and could be a way to solve your transport problems - but please show some consideration for those being moved around - they are still human beings, not lumps to transport !!

Rant over !

Yes, I care, I find myself defending my membership and others in similar situations when people have a poor understanding of the needs for those less fortunate than themselves.
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#5 Posted : 25 May 2006 12:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster
Jan

Karl has answered your specific question, but one important detail is incorrect.

The driver of ANY vehicle required to be fitted with passenger seat belts, including black cabs and private hire vehicles, is legally responsible for ensuring that they are worn, properly adjusted, by children up to the age of 14 years, (not 16). The driver faces prosecution if they are not.

14 year olds and above are responsible for their own seat belts. However where there are ages 14+ with learning difficulties/special needs there is no reason why you cannot include a contract clause to require the driver to ensure that they are worn.

John (former part time taxi driver and foster carer to a child with special needs who is taken daily by LA contract taxi to school and can be bothered to get up)
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#6 Posted : 25 May 2006 15:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jan Moore
My message may have not been very clear. I am not specifically in charge of these children but am trying to work through a mess. Of course I understand Aspergers and elements of autism having a family member with Aspergers.
I posted the thread having taken some basic queries from the Home to School team and said I would seek advice. I am sorry if my first thread appeared critical, nothing was further from my mind. There are however some concerns that the expensive home to school and school to home run is taking into account truancy. I am sure you will understand where this is the case, the hard pressed members of the team I am working with are tearing their hair out.

Kind regards

Jan
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#7 Posted : 25 May 2006 17:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ateeka
Hi Jan,

You may find the following link useful:
www.childcarseats.org.uk

Also try getting your hands on the following document: NACT - Local Authority Passenger Transport Operational Procedure.

Hope this helps - Ateeka
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#8 Posted : 25 May 2006 20:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jan Moore
Thanks Ateeka. A very useful site.

Take care

Jan
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#9 Posted : 27 May 2006 00:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
Karl,

Before you criticise can I suggest that you read the original post. This was not limited to Aspergers and included Autism. Alongside other challenging behaviours interference with the driver (violently or not) can be distracting and dangerous.

Regards

Tony
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#10 Posted : 31 May 2006 15:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Durkin
Hi All,
New to this thread but,I have noticed other related threads.i.e.Kids travelling in cars;Company cars & new car rules on child restraints & Child car seats.
All have some very useful points.I would like to add WHICH? magazine as a reference,it selects child seats on the basis of safety not just cost.It also covers in its latest edition the new law from Sept 06(June 2006)
Regards exceptions & taxis :"On 'emergency'unplanned journeys where an appropriate restraint is not available;or where two occupied child seats in the rear prevent the fitting of a third child seat.In these cases the adult seat should be used.
Regards enforcement it also states that:Police will be able to issue an on-the-spot fine of £30, or £500 if the case goes to court.So there is a definate encouragement to get it right !!
Regards,Paul
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#11 Posted : 31 May 2006 15:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fornhelper
Hi all,

Does anyone know if the new legislation applies to Scotland ?

Regards
FH
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#12 Posted : 31 May 2006 15:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster
Road traffic law is a reserved power for Westminster, as far as I can recall, ...so Yes is the answer.
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#13 Posted : 01 June 2006 08:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karl Newcombe
TONY

PLEASE READ BELOW!!!!

These are mainly children who are physically able bodied but have Aspergers or other behavioural problems. Some have transport provided because they can't be bothered to get up and go to school! Any help would be appreciated.

I AM VERY CLEAR WHAT THIS READS THANKYOU. MAYBE IT IS YOU WHO NEEDS TO READ THIS AGAIN!!!! I HAVE A CHILD WHO IS NOWW 11 AND GOES IN A TAXI TO SPECIAL SCHOOL. MY CHILD HAS ASPERGERS....

. HE GETS OUT OF BED EVERY MORNING!

. HE DOES NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH BEHAVIOUR PROBLEMS, AND FURTHER MORE NONE OF THE CHILDREN IN THE TAXI HAVE BEHAVIOUR PROBLEMS WHO ALSO HAVE ASPERGERS!!!!

YOU READ THE POST TONY I AM VERY CLEAR AND UNDERSTAND ONLY TWO WELL WHAT THIS POST READS AS A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE A REPLY!!

KARL
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#14 Posted : 01 June 2006 08:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karl Newcombe
If anyone else would like to jump in, and tell me how they think this post reads. I am sure Jan didnt mean for this to come over this way, however it does read as if ALL children with Aspergers have behavier problems or cant be bothered to get out of bed.... I think!
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#15 Posted : 01 June 2006 08:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Daniel Stonehouse
Dear all: I don't think the initial poster was trying to be insensitive, though i am also a parent that is affected by this issue and i can see where some misunderstanding could arise.
It is sometimes very easy to write something on the forum that does not read quite as we would like to say it in person - i have had to apologise to the moderators before for doing this, and i am sure that this posting was not written as to cause offence.
Hopefully between all of the replies the original question has been answered and many people have gained a little understanding of the difficulties that can be encountered in this area - 329 visits to the thread so far. Surely if all this thread has done is to highlight the issue then that must be a success.

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