Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Jan Moore
Some of our nursery schools are being targetted by vandals - arson, structural damage etc. I can't get my head around the mentality of these yobs.
One nursery has a flat roof - fairly fragile because local yobs access the roof and play football on it before getting into the grounds to break windows etc.
I would like to fit razor wire around some of the roof access points. Does anyone know whether this is illegal? The roof is 12 feet high.
Many thanks
Jan
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Fred Pratley
Jan,
I don't know about razor wire particularly, but if it were inboard of the edge of the roof and properly signed?
You could consider fixing boards around the outside and coat these with anti-vandal paint, or if its a felt roof, perhaps a new coat of tar - That would take some time to harden fully and may keep the vandals away?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Dave Wilson
NO its not illegal as long as it is not positioned so as to 'deliberately' injure someone who is getting access to your property either legally or illegally(Its not a trap in other words) it should be used as a visible deterrent.
You also say its a fragile roof, are there warning signs to identify as such?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jeffrey Watt Jan Have they secreted razor blades on the kids slides yet? It happens. Check out the police secure by design website and downloads. Don't know if they have any specifics on razor wire but this is a good resource. Look in the design guides. http://www.securedbydesign.com/Also, there can be legal implications regards your neighbours when making changes to structures as you may make their property more/less accessable. I know that doesn't answer your specific question but something worth considering. Kind regards Jeff
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Robert K Lewis
The rule used to be above 2.4 metres was OK provided it was within your boundary and clearly signed, as I mentioned previously on another thread even electric fencing can be used.
The anti vandal paint is a good bet if you don't want to be tooooo vigorous at the start. There are some good ones about where you can have a registered colour with specific chemical markers such that the police can use the dye present on hands or clothes as evidence of attempted entry.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Neville
Apart from the H&S aspects, the 'Geneva Convention' made reference to the use of rusty
barbed (razor) wire and its use in conflicts.
Being ex- military, you tend to recall useless information like that!
It was all right to shoot people but under no circumstances were you to allow them to die of blood poisoning, through the use of rusty barbed wire!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney
Neville
I never knew that! Thank you for the educational trip.
Chazza
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By ME
I once investigated a case where a local kid fell through the roof of a factory located in their estate. It was a reoccuring problem for them even though fragile roof signs were placed and there was perimeter fence. The advice both myself and the police gave was to fit razor wire...but neither the police nor myself were prepared to give that advice officially! Don't know if that answers your question!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jan Moore
Many thanks for everybody's kind help in this. In aswer to Dave,YES the roof is well signed to point it out as fragile but with what's going on, I doubt whether the offenders would know what fragile meant. We have backed this up by a sign clearly stating that 'you could fall through it'!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ken Dickson
Jan,
While the fitting of razor wire may not be specifically illegal, you need to consider the Occupiers Liability Act which covers liability for those on your premises, even if they are there illegally. You also may not wish to place too much hope in signage warning of a fragile room. Those who are up to the antics you describe are hardly likely to take any heed of the signs.
Obvious physical protection (razor wire could be that), That is well signed (but which will be ignored!), with a risk assessment to justify it and support it, and consider video monitoring which can be quite inexpensive these days may be appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Liam Mc Conalogue
Hi Jan,
I can appreciate your predicament- we have had an ongoing problem with tresspassers.
We do use razor wire and I have to say that it is effective. I spoke to the HSE about it and explained my problem. We had it placed around 9-10 feet high- plenty of signage used to highlight its use- HSE were fine with it. They were very understanding of the whole situation and I highlighted we have a security firm, adequate boundary fencing being used but it wasn't deterring these guys.
But we still get the odd persistent one off unexpected breach of our system, but we just take a log of it- notify the local police and take a record of this also.
Its just my experience but it wouldn't do any harm to have a wee chat with your local authorities for a bit of guidance.
All The Best,
Liam
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jan Moore
Thanks Liam. The local patrol officers involved are special constables who really are dismissive and are constantly going on about 'working with the community'. This doesn't help the little ones aged from 6 weeks to 3 years old. They are putting up with smashed windows (even while they are in Nursery)and stolen toys. The last comment the specials made to the Nursery manager last week was in effect a warning. Something about these louts suing if she considered measures that would prevent access to the nursery and its grounds during the night! I heard today that the alarms went off again at 3.20 this morning. Another lock had been tampered with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Robert K Lewis
Jan
I think you need to get the school to talk to the Crime Prevention Officer and if necessary take the attitude of the "specials" further with the station superintendent.
I would advise that the CPO is informed of the intention to erect a high level fence with anti vandal paint/dye unless they have a better solution. This could elicit some assistance. Record every detail and conversation with the local patrol and other police officers from now forwards. Vandalism is crime and needs to be stamped out - the people spoken to obviously are taking it as trespass and therefore a civil matter.
Good Luck
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Liam Mc Conalogue
Morning Jan,
If that is the attitude of the specials that are patrolling your area, I would advise much the same as the last post- make an appointment to speak to a constable with stripes- explain the risk that is being posed to the wee tots as well as the employees and the attitude of the specials to these break-ins and that you feel you require their direct assitance.
As a last resort- if the police are not heeding your calls for assistance go to the media and get an article done. I have seen how the media in the past has been used when colleagues of mine have come up against a brick wall with authorities. Needless to say the situation was dealt with immediately before any further coverage took place.
Liam
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jan Moore
Thanks Liam. I've arranged to meet the two 'community officers' who, I'm afraid, aren't having an awful lot of luck with the community they deal with (one had his bike nicked whilst on duty!)
Thanks again.
Take care
Jan
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jerry Lucey
Hi Jan,
Some great suggestions about signage warning not only potential intruders but also contractors who may be called on to work on your roofs about the presence of razor wire, fragile roofing materials and other inherent risks that may exist in this area.
It is worth remembering that you do owe trespassers, even those who enter your premises with the intent to vandalise a Duty of Common Humanity and you may be liable for any injury they sustain while on your premises. You are not liable for any material damage they sustain e.g. damage to clothing etc.
I have found anti-climb paint very effective on metal barriers, although it does tend to look grubby in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ron Hunter
To Jeffrey Watt: thanks for the web address for "secured by design". Very interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.