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Applicability of UK H&S legislation to situations overseas
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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
I am doing some research and wanted to ascertain the views and opinions of members of this site.
To what extent do members feel/think that UK H&S legislation could apply and how,in relation to work undertaken by an employee on a UK contract but working for a period of time overseas (anything from a week to six months) in a country that has no H&S legislation in place?
Discuss......all opinions very welcome and sought.
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Posted By Merv Newman
In the theoretical situation you pose, I would suggest that you do your best to maintain UK standards. I am fairly certain that any injury or death resulting to your employee would come back to haunt you. Maybe not as a criminal liability but most likely to be civil.
However, I think, there are not many countries which have NO H&S legislation. Even if it is often dormant. Most previous colonies will have at least inherited european legal systems with equivalent legislation even though it may not be "up-to-date" (whatever that means) I've been to a few of the north-west african countries (ex-french or belgian colonies) and had little or no trouble finding H&S legal info. Usually by asking local H&S person or site management.
What it usually means for a uk citizen to be working overbroad is that two sets of legislation can apply.
Merv
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Posted By Jerry Lucey
Hi Jennifer,
I do feel that most countries have some health and safety legislation and many enforcing authorities may take it as a slight for you to adhere to UK legislation, rather than that of your host nation while working there.
Perhaps you could implement a health and safety management system which focus on the requirements of UK legislation, in effect complying with UK legislation within your safety management system. Your documentation does not need to refer to specific legislation for you to comply. You could stress where you are complying with local legislation in your documentation to reassure the enforcing authorities in your host country.
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
I smiled a little as I read Jerry's observation: being 'overseas' himself, he is more aware of sensitivities of ex-colonies in relation to their former controllers.
These factors also come to my mind in relation to the issues raised
1. what is stated in the employee's contract of employment about the legal jurisdiction involved, and how does this affect management of H & S at work
2. to what extent are EU directives relevant, as 24 other countries are 'overseas' with reference to British legislation
3. choice of language may be important especially where documentation or correspondence involves an the vernacular of an 'overseas' former colony where English is no longer the lingua franca.
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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Thanks for the responses so far.
Whilst I recognise that many countries do have a level a of H&S legislation in place which must be respected in the first instance, I am talking about countries that have little or no infrastructure in place let alone H&S laws.
What I am therefore exploring is the potential for liability againist UK organisations that send UK employees to such places.
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Posted By Ian Waldram
A tricky area indeed. That is absoluely no liability in UK H&S law, as those who enforce it have no power (and no resources) to investigate and collect non-UK evidence. There could well be a common law liability, it would depend on the facts - for example what does the employment contract say, if anything, about work outside UK? How easy would it be for the employer to make arrangements to prevent the injury/illness, or reduce its consequences? How experienced is the employer in managing non-UK workplaces, or contracts?
Obviously the moral duty to care for employees doesn't change, but the practicalities do. Any half-decent employer will do a risk assessment for such work (even though strictly not required by UK legislation) and then review which of the identified risks they can do something about. If they decide to accept the work, this risk assessment is a key briefing document for the employees.
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Posted By Chris Packham
Surely the whole point of health and safety is not legal compliance but ensuring that that valuable asset, the workforce, remains healthy and able to work effectively. I also assume that since this person is being sent to work overseas he or she has some particular skill, expertise or training that is not readily available in that country. Given that sending the person overseas, persumably paying travel, relocation and possibly accomodation costs will all represent a not insignificant sum and considering the costs that would arise from an accident or occupational illness resulting in them having to be repatriated, it would make sense to try to adopt the highest standards possible, where appropriate complying with (but in your case almost certainly exceeding) local health and safety legislation.
I always take the view that legal compliance is a minimum position, i.e. SATNAP (Simplest Techniques Available Narrowly Avoiding Prosecution) and that good employers will always be seeking to exceed this.
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Posted By Merv Newman
SATNAP is new to me. Thankyou. It would appear to me that requiring respect of UK (or european) legislation, as far as reasonably practicable, would be the most obvious route. Remembering that "european" legislation is not necessarily pan-european.
I have worked with an organisation that installs gas-turbine electricity generators around the world. They always send out a container full of "essential equipment" including PPE, power generators, porta potties, tools and tea/coffee making facilities. Sometimes they get the containers back, sometimes the containers get converted to offices or to site management housing.
Check local requirements and do the best you can to comply with both.
But I already said that. DindnI ?
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Posted By Chris Packham
Merv
Your e-mail struck a chord! When, many years ago, I was working in the oil industry and was posted to Libya, the furniture arrived in two packing cases (one ton and half ton). I got the transport from the docks, unpacking, assembly and installation for free in exchange for the packing cases. They made a complete house for a family. They thought they were in heaven. Waterproof accomodation (cases lined with tar paper!) was the envy of their friends!
Chris
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Posted By The toecap
I was in Kosovo during the Balkans conflict. I recall being told to ride on a set of forks to put a flag on a flag pole. I refused. I think they got some other idiot to do it. I wasn't going to get killed riding on aset of forks. When i could have already been killed by snipers etc
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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Thank you all for your contributions - certainly some food for thought here.
Regards
Jennifer
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Posted By johnwaterson2773
Hi Jennifer,
When I was in the forces and we were operating in a theatre with no H & S, we worked to UK law. I am currenly working overseas and the country I am in has no H & S at all. I have seen people on he streets mixing concrete wearing flip flops. The countries involved who have H & S officers here do semi job of instilling H & S to the wokers. An example is wear a hard hat, but individuals were working at height with no fall potection and using a piece of reed bar as a working platform. Amazed, I was.
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Applicability of UK H&S legislation to situations overseas
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