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#1 Posted : 12 June 2006 14:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rob French The story so far, I work for a local police authority as a H&S officer. I have found out that the local council have a large empty building that is subject to burglary due to the presence of saleable metals. To get to them the intruders will have to disturb brown asbestos which the council have to told us is there. I have suggested that the officers attending should be issued with P3 respiratory masks, what else should be happening, Kind regards
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#2 Posted : 12 June 2006 15:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson If this has been identified as an ACM (Amosite - probaly AIB) it should be on your Asbestos Management Plan which will (or should) have a plan / instructions in place for your employer to adequately control any exposure. This will mean that a material RA done by the surveyor and then a Priority Ra done by the duty holder, this will point you in the right direction as how to manage it! Included in this there should be 'what to do in the event off' if it is likely that it could be disturbed and contaminate someone. P3 masks OK but what about face fitting and disposable overalls etc, who is going to control access until an Environmental clean etc will send you my phone number if you wish and I can give you some more advice etc.
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#3 Posted : 12 June 2006 15:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Bish Use of a mask will help to minimise the inhalation of asbestos fibres when in the building, but this is not the only risk to be considered. The intruders will also have been at risk of exposure and the extent of asbestos fibres released will depend upon how much the material was disturbed. I doubt the villains will take much care or use their own ppe,so the risks are high. Do the officers need to go into the building - it would be safer to wait until the villains emerge? If the villains clothing is contaminated even arresting them outside may present a risk to the officers.
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#4 Posted : 12 June 2006 15:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jerry Lucey Hi Rob, It is worth noting that the Duty of Common Humainity may apply here and the council owes this duty to the intruders. Not all diseases caused by exposure to asbestos are dose related and it sounds as though the same intruders may be entering these premises on a fairly regular basis. The Council, being aware of the presence of asbestos should risk assess and follow the hierarchy of controls when implementing measures. Making those who may be exposed aware of the presence of asbestos or issuing PPE comes down the line and all reasonably practicable steps should be taken to eliminate the risk, failing that it should be reduced etc. The steps you have taken i.e. the issue of appropriate PPE sounds like a good start, however from your point of view, you might risk assess and where possible ensure that your personnel are not exposed. Is it possible for your Officers to enter the building by an alternative route? Hope this helps.
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#5 Posted : 12 June 2006 15:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jerry Lucey Tony has a very good point on clothing. This should also be considered with your Officers clothing i.e. contaminated uniforms being kept seperate from other clothing that may be worn off duty and appropriate precautions for cleaning contaminated clothing.
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#6 Posted : 12 June 2006 19:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By steven bentham Rob I have worked advicing and enforcing asbestos removal for a while. Some thoughts for you: (1) You need to link the safety risks in line with operational risks; (2) Breaking one panel of AIB does not give massive exposures (bearing in mind that it is the bad guys who are doing the breaking and getting the exposure) If the Police arrive on site with the burglary in progress then the risks are minimum from asbestos board. The main spread of fibres is when you will tread in the stuff and walk it back to your car (wipe shoes or stand in water). If its an after the event investigation (your guys can be equiped with overshoes, tyvek suit and disposable respirator). Again the risk is minimum. Keep in mind its likely to be a break in one or more panels to enter the property, many occupations will be subject to small accidental exposures. Contact me by e-mail if you want to discuss this in detail. Regards Steve
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#7 Posted : 12 June 2006 22:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By MarkJAWatkins By the time the officers get suited up the intruders would be long gone! I don't famcy chasing some numpty a few miles in a tyvek suit! It may be costly but the best option is to have the ACM removed so you are taking away all risk. You would have to get a licensed contractor in anyway if the ACM is damaged. Also, you would have to notify the HSE that you are cleaning up asbestos that was damaged by intruders. If the HSE find out that you knew the building was broken into alot and you knew the asbestos was a major issue to both intruders and officers and that there was a high risk of the ACM being damaged (especially a licensed product) they may ask a few questions as to why the material was not removed. Regards, Mark Watkins
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#8 Posted : 12 June 2006 22:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Fisher Firstly I recognise that you are asking about the protection of your officers responding to a building owned by the Local Authority where asbestos will be removed in commission of a crime. You, the Police have no ownership etc of the building, so your focus is in protecting your officers in responding to that crime. I would recommend that you set up a three way meeting, led by yourself and a duty officer, with the council and the HSE. I would seek the council's understanding of the risk to the public, your officers etc, and seek the security of the building or the removal of the material - prior knowledge and all that. As for the HSE Asbestos Inspector I would seek his support and assistance in developing a management strategy and test the proposals to protect your officers in responding to such an event. Do you have a response plan for attendance at toxic etc incidents? start there. Bill
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