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Posted By Brett
It is with some dismay that I have just watched the news, which highlighted Cannock council (I am a native of Cannock) stopping all of their drivers flying the St. Georges cross from the windows of their vehicles in the name of health and safety.
These flags are in my opinion made for such a purpose and are suitable for the task.
This is yet again another council worrying about a completely different issue (political correctness) and taking the easy route by blaming health and safety legislation.
Do we not as professionals, have a poor enough name within our own environments, along with enough problems and individuals to deal with, without such stupidity from so called fellow members (which I have no doubt they are) making us a laughing stock for all and sundry.
Please let’s stop this conker madness.
Discuss ( if allowed by the mediator)
Brett CMIOSH
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Posted By David Bramall
You are quite right Brett - things are totally out of hand. As you mention conkers, another fine example of H&S gone mad. I assume that the flags you refer to are a little 9 inch x 6 inch plastic thing on a little plastic stick which if it hit someone could cause puncture injuries, severe burns from the friction of the plastic rubbing someones skin, maybe the flag is made of a toxic substance etc. etc. etc.
In reality what is the possible damage that these things can do - very minimal I think.
It's time someone put a stop to the nonsense.
Regards
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Posted By Brett Day
Here's something I've come across that might make a bit of sense. Since world cup fever has grabbed the nation I've driven over lots of these flags coming off cars, they are designed to be held in place with the window closed, add hot weather, drivers open windows, flags come off.
I just drive over the things but have seen several 'instinctive' reactions from other cars such as swerving out of the way, I've seen other cars start to swerve, then pull back as they realise that it won't cause any damage/danger to them.
At the risk of being labelled a kiljoy, From what I've seen from some drivers displaying several flags I would suggest that they concentrate more on thier driving than putting daft flags on the car.
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
Brett,
Where do you live? Must be very patriotic. I drive thousands of miles a month and have not seen a single one of these things on the road deck let alone "Lots". Obviously it follows that I have not seen anyone swerve to miss one. Perhaps we could collect these and resell them and I can give up elfinsafety forever as England carry off the World Cup......one can dream!!
Tony
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
I've solved the problem.
It's mounted on a steel rod firmly bolted to the roofrack.
It also has an EU symbol in the corner.
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Posted By railrider
Totally agree.Ban these flags on cars.
Now who is going to tell the Queen to take the flags off hers. ?????
;-)
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Posted By Paul Oliver
For the record, I've had two of these flags hit my car whilst travelling on a dual carriageway close to my home in the last month. I belive they are appropriate for urban use, but travelling at 70mph + with them on is ridiculous.
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Posted By Nigel Hammond
I think these tacky flags should be removed on the grounds of taste - along with furry dice, blue lights and all the other boy racer stuff....
Remember you are not allowed to post defamatory remarks about invidividuals on this forum - just in case I get any abusive responses from flag wavers!
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Posted By garyh
I have been away for the weekend and hardly saw any England flags on cars.
I was In Scotland.
I did see an article to the effect that the number of flags and stickers etc on a car was inversely proportional to the driving skills and intelligence of the driver, thus giving other drivers fair warning to keep clear.
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Posted By David-J-Jones
I must admit to having been in agreement with Brett over the flags and having a pair on my car(along with a flag taped around my parcel shelf).
However on Saturday I was riding my motorcycle when one of the flags on the car in front decided to break off and shot at me like an exorcet. Not that bad for a full face helmet, might have been a different issue for an open face, after that I have some sympathy for both arguments , common sence has to prevail at the end of the day.
As commented ok for urban use but tat plastic made in Ta***an and sold for 50p is not going to hold up to 70 mph into a wind
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Posted By Jonathan Sandler CMIOSH
Banning flags on cars would be interesting when it comes to a state visit,picking up on the point made earlier, who's going to tell the Queen? This is NOT a saftey matter, it come under either the Police or the Enviromental Agency, they should enforce.
The best one I heard the other day was FIFA wish to reduce the amonut of teams in the Perm Division because the footballers play to many games, this is on the groungds of health and safety!!!!!!! PC, I dont think so; they get paid how much a week?
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Posted By Tabs
Come to Essex!
What winds me up is that these end up on the road/pavement and people casually drive / walk over them. In my mind that is disrespectful of a flag and what it stands for. (Oh my word, I AM Victor Meldrew!)
I like to see our flag waved. Just wish they were better made / fitted.
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Posted By garyh
Tabs, you cannot be serious. How can you respect an inanimate object?
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Posted By Brett Day
Tony, I'm Essex based, not sure about patriotic but blends in with the other max power accessories
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Posted By Alice
Who is going to tell the Queen?!!
I'm pretty sure the Queen's flags are of much better quality than the ones that are given away free when you buy a fathers day card!
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Posted By Mike Palfrey
Can I just say a few words on things attached to cars that may come off and cause a lot more injury than a flag;
Bike Racks (and bikes of course) ??? Has anyone ever heard any similar comments about them?
How many of these look pretty unsafely attached and how are the bikes stowed?
How many obscure rear windows, number plates and rear lights?
Should they be banned on elfunsayftee grounds?
Discuss.
Regards
Mike
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Posted By Richard Davis
Mis-guided reactionary councils are not a new thing..... they all seem to use H&S as a default setting to justify daft enforcements and by-laws.
However, it's a fair point about the possible consequence of our friend here being "speared" by one on his bike, agree quite nasty if wearing an open face. The flutter of the flags do attract the eye (as I guess they're supposed to) and are therefore likely to draw attention away from possible danger or an obsticle in the road.
Much to my dismay, both next door neighbour are flying the retched things from two cars each, garage doors and windows.... yuk!!! Truely chavtastic.....
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Posted By garyh
They should not be banned and health and safety grounds - they should be banned on the grounds of taste!!
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Posted By John Webster
What flags are these then?
The only flag I have seen attached to a car in recent months was that displayed by the Council convenor.
Am I living in some sort of non-parallel universe?
Mind you, I can remember 2 World Cups ago we were having an extension built on the house. The builders had stopped work early to watch the Scotland vs Brazil match. Every car that passed had a tooting horn, and we discovered that the builders had securely nailed a post to our roof timbers proudly sporting a 10ft long lion rampant!!
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Posted By alex mccreadie
I am not against anyone flying a flag espicially an English one.(I am Scottish)After reading the post last night I decided to count the flag waving cars on my journey today.
I joined the M4 AT Bath at around 05.15 am proceeded along M4 to the M25 then turned onto the M11 heading into East London. I counted 100 cars flag waving before the M11 junction. I never noticed 1 on the floor?
As in previous posts my concern is a flag blowing of and heading towards you, you will react in someway that I feel is where the danger comes in? (And I do really want England to win the World Cup as we can,t. I am a Sportsman.)
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Posted By J Knight
What is the World Cup of which you write? Oh, football, how interesting. Agree entirely that it's not councils' business as such. I've also have seen loads of the little blighters littering roads and pavements. I do worry about them falling off cars, but it's rather more difficult to complain about the huge ones that hang out of bedroom windows all over the place. Its not to my taste, but then neither is football so I can't judge, really.
Oh, and bike racks; big difference is that when I attach my bike rack I'm painfully aware that it has over £1,000 worth of kit on it (our pushbikes are at the budget end); I do try and make sure it won't fall off. England flags are two for a tanner at woolies, people hardly have the same investment in them
How long do you think they'll last after we get knocked out of this football affair? Last time round it was months and months before the last one disappeared,
John
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Posted By Richard Davis
John,
You're quite right in pointing out the differences between your bike rack and these £2.50 flags. Your rack was designed to carry a bike/s on the back of a vehicle, and has been tested to destruction by the manufacture..... never heard of bikes comming off, most likey due to human error rather than design fault if it has happened.
Cast your mind back many years to the Children In Need appeal when the first Red Noses for cars appeared..... people left them on for years...!! However I'd suggest the quality of the "tatt" that is being passed off as the flag of St George, will not make it to the end of summer :-)
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Posted By Gary IMD(UK)
Is this for real?!!
Maybe Clarkson was right after all?
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Gary IMD,
Just read David J Jones (wasn't he lead singer of the Monkees?) comments and you'll see that there is a bit of serious concern here. Don't know if any fatalities have been caused yet, but by the sounds of things its only a matter of time. Its not the flags as such, its anything not properly secured to vehicles,
John
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Posted By Breezy
...Just a thought late on in the discussion.
Rather than banning on the grounds of 'elf & safety' perhaps a better response would have been for the LA trading standards department to have run a campaign on the fitness for purpose of the goods sold.
That after all is the issue here is it not?
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Posted By Gary IMD(UK)
I'm not sure I should respond to this for fear of upsetting the Mod's!
Maybe we really should bubble wrap ourselves and not venture too far??
Take care!
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Posted By Phil H
Is it me or am I being cynical in thinking some decisions to ban activities are based more on finacial and resource costs rather than health and safety. If this is the case then who signs the final report saying'TOO DANGEROUS'. If it is on H+S grounds hopefully it is a qualified H+S person who can justify their decision.Maybe they need training and development or at worst maybe they are pandering to pressure from the board,in which case they are risking the integrity of the profession.Maybe it is time for IOSH to quality control some of its members decisions.
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Posted By Stupendous Man
As a few have posted here, these flags may be suitable when the car is travelling at 30mph, but anything above that and they are dangerous.
I've seen about a dozen flags fly off cars - and I don't spend all day out on the roads so it must be a problem. This thought is compounded by the number of flags that can be seen littering the highway after having fallen off.
In more rural areas, these flags are also dangerous to horses. Unfortunately this simply adds to the problem caused by the poor driving standards of a high proportion of drivers where I live.
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