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Posted By Steven
I have been told previously that it is a requirement to have nominated staff trained in the use of fire extinguishers.
Training has lapsed in this field and I have some doubts on whether this is required in certain areas. If the fire RA identifies a need to have employees trained in the use of fire extinguishers then I have not got a problem with the training.
The question is how many would you train, what ratio of staff would you want to be trained?
Opinions appreciated.
Steve
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Posted By sian
Its difficult to say unless knowing the numbers of staff you have and company you work in, my advice would be to train a pool of staff who are always on shift or one/two persons from each department area..
Hope this helps
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Posted By Tabs
I have to agree, sadly "it depends" ...
rules of thumb:
The more likely a fire is, the more I would train
I would train anyone routinely working alone on site (security / cleaners)
Anyone whose escape route is less than perfect, or only has one initial route
Anyone you send to investigate alarms (security)
Anyone involved in hot works
Kitchen managers
Loading bay / parking area people
sorry, seems a longer list than I intended.
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Posted By garyh
When I dealt with this issue HSE were two faced on this; they expect fire awareness & extinguisher training for "at risk" personnel. If you ask them "so we can ask these people to fight fires" they go all cute and shy and mumble...........so basically HSE want people trained, but do not actually want them to put fires out!!
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Posted By Ron Young
We don't train our staff at all and this has met with conflicting responses from the Fire Authorities but to date none have told me to train anyone.
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Posted By Adrian Clifton
GET OUT, STAY OUT is the message from the Fire Services, not, find an extinguisher and fight the fire. Fire extinguishers are "to aid escape". We do not expect staff to fight fires but provide them with information on which extinguishers to use for the fire if their exit is blocked by flames E.G. CO2 for possible electrical, foam for possible liquid fires and water for others.
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Posted By Paul Oliver
I fully agree with Adrian,
training does not have to include setting fire extinguishers off. Your fire risk asesssment should ensure that suitable equipment is availalbe at all exit points to aid escape.
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Posted By garyh
Reality is that you are expected to tell people all about the classes of fires and types of extinguishers - however if this is only to aid them to escape it ain't relevant - they will use the nearest extinguisher!
In the event of a small fire, people always try to put it out in my experience - even to the extent of risking their own safety, then expecting congratulations!
People think that we want them to put fires out.
By the way please give some real examples of people using extinguishers to aid escape - eg "the fire exit was on fire"!!
We do send mixed messages on this, usually trying to comply with regulators percieved standards who themselves don't seem certain what they want.
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Posted By Ian Hurley
We train all our pers in fire awareness, and show them how to use an extinguisher , however we also stress that they should only tackle fires if confident ,and that fire fighting is best left to the fire brigade
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Posted By Paul Oliver
Garyph,
That is why a suitable fire risk assessment will ensure that in accordance with your safety management plan, you will position the correct type of extinguisher close or near to to all exit points within your location.
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Posted By AJM
Surely if you have fire wardens which you should have under the new fire reforms legislation coming in October. Then as we have here they are trained in the use of extinguishers anyway. The rest of the staff just require fire awareness training.
Asas previously stated the Fire risk assessment is the cornerstone to all of it and dependant on the industry or work area suitable and sufficient. In my humble opinion it is going the same way as legionella risk assessments etc and going down the route of a specialist field.
The new regulations are in in October so people might as well get using them now. The relevant part to do with training states.
Training
21. —(1) The responsible person must ensure that his employees are provided with adequate safety training—
(a) at the time when they are first employed; and
(b) on their being exposed to new or increased risks because of—
(i) their being transferred or given a change of responsibilities within the responsible person's undertaking;
(ii) the introduction of new work equipment into, or a change respecting work equipment already in use within, the responsible person's undertaking;
(iii) the introduction of new technology into the responsible person's undertaking; or
(iv) the introduction of a new system of work into, or a change respecting a system of work already in use within, the responsible person's undertaking.
(2) The training referred to in paragraph (1) must—
(a) include suitable and sufficient instruction and training on the appropriate precautions and actions to be taken by the employee in order to safeguard himself and other relevant persons on the premises;
(b) be repeated periodically where appropriate;
(c) be adapted to take account of any new or changed risks to the safety of the employees concerned;
(d) be provided in a manner appropriate to the risk identified by the risk assessment; and
(e) take place during working hours.
Thats what i have always been led to believe anyway.
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Posted By Ron Young
Where does it say in the new legislation, you have to have fire wardens?
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Posted By Mark Eden
With regard to your question I sugest you look at the new Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 SI 2005 No. 1541.
Part Two section 13 Fire-fighting & Fire Detection.
"The responsible person must, where necessary -
(a) take measures for fire-fighting in the premises.
(b) nominate competent persons to implement those measures.
There is a lot more detail in the order but the way it reads is that if a fire risk assessment deems it necessary to have fire extinguishers then you need to have trained personnel to use them.
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Posted By Steven
Extract from Fire Risk Assessment - Factories and Warehouse
3.4.2 Firefighting equipment and facilities
“Firefighting equipment can reduce the risk of a small fire, e.g. a fire in a waste-paper bin, developing into a large one. The safe use of an appropriate fire extinguisher to control a fire in its early stages can also significantly reduce the risk to other people in the premises by allowing people to assist others who are at risk.
This equipment will need to comprise enough portable extinguishers that must be suitable for the risk.
In simple premises, having one or two portable extinguishers of the appropriate type, readily available for use, may be all that is necessary. In more complex premises, a number of portable extinguishers may be required and they should be sited in suitable locations, e.g. on the escape routes at each floor level. It may also be necessary to indicate the location of extinguishers by suitable signs.
Some premises will also have permanently installed firefighting equipment such as hose reels, for use by trained staff or firefighters.
People with no training should not be expected to attempt to extinguish a fire.
However, all staff should be familiar with the location and basic operating procedures for the equipment provided, in case they need to use it. If your fire strategy means that certain people, e.g. fire marshals, will be expected to take a more active role, then they should be provided with more comprehensive training.”
So as I read it all staff should be familiar with the basic use of fire extinguishers – how would you clarify this? Could this be done via a short questionnaire on operation, use, types etc…or does it mean fire extinguisher training?
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Posted By Steven
Just a quick follow up on the training issue. What type of training, if any, would you require to be competent in giving “basic operating procedures for equipment provided”
Are there courses available for training the trainer on fire extinguisher use?
Steve
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Posted By Linda Westrupp
Steve
As has been said in previous replies and as usual it depends on what industry/area you are working in. In Care settings there is a requirement for all staff to be able to use a fire extinguisher. We ended up with courses run by the local Fire and Rescue Service (Brigade) who do teach people how to use one. In other areas we do standard awareness training and use the get out and stay out philosophy.
Surprisingly there seems to be considerable conflicting advice between Inspectors and Agencies, how unusual!!
Linda
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Posted By Steven
I have arranged fire extinguisher training for certain staf in certain areas and realise it depends on the work environment, i am trying to to find a train the trainer course on fire extinguishers so that we are able to give the basic operating procedure of fire extinguishers to the rest of the staff.
Some may have their opinions on this, but i feel that our current basic fire safety training, which is done during induction, is not sufficient and i want to upgrade the training without having to pay the cost of getting a company in to do fire awareness training.
So if anyone is aware of any train the trainer courses in fire extinguisher/safety please pass on info.
Many thanks
Steve
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