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Posted By Martin Monaghan Quote from a recent article in the Edinburgh Evening News(http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=879852006) (See also HSE response on Putting the record straight section of thir website.)
"The most important factor when it comes to health and safety at work and at home isn't risk assessment or contingency planning but good old fashioned common sense. The more risk-averse we become, the less we will be able to rely on the strikingly obvious. "
I didn't agree with a lot of the things said in the article - but there were some very good points made. Will the Lawyers take notice?
Martin.
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Posted By Sean Fraser I'm sorry, but this chap seems to have confused risk assessment with risk aversion. An assessment looks at the inherent hazards and seeks to reduce the risk to as low as reasonably practical, using a hierarchy of control as guidance on how to approach each step. Risk averse prevents getting anything done for fear of failure and possible consequences (real or imagined).
We "risk assess" everything we do every day, but how much of that is based on competency is open to question - competence being a mixture of knowledge, training and experience. "Common sense" is often a product of competence, not a natural gift that everyone automatically has at birth. So to rely on "common sense" is ludicrous. And it is easy to malign guidance that seems to state the obvious, but believe me, if you had to deal with some of the people I have had to deal with then it really does come down to that at times. And remember, just because you led the horse to water doesn't mean it will drink.
It's easy to take a pop at something like H&S (or parking enforcement) - but when something goes seriously wrong, these are the same people baying for blood and demanding heads roll.
Hypocrites of the highest order. And so, my fellow professionals, remember - even if we as a profession are maligned by the press and ignoramuses of this man's ilk, at last we will ALWAYS poll higher in terms of trust and integrity than journalists!
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Posted By J Knight Well, the author is evidently as well informed as journalists generally are; though he does admit that H&S law is well-intentioned. I was particularly struck by his assertion 'Travel around Europe and you will struggle to find another country so obsessed with creating petty rules and regulations.' Has he never been to Germany, I wonder, or does his 'Europe' extend only to the Tuscany and Piedmont beloved of his ilk? I mean, I don't want to tar all Germans with the same brush, and believe me I have travelled in and love the country, but boy do they love their regulations,
John
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Posted By Peter Moran Sean, I quite agree with your comments....appeals to 'common sense' are risky and often involve making potentially dangerous assumptions about someone's knowledge and general competence.
As for rules and petty regulations, another EU country, Greece, also has them in abundance albeit only enforcing them when it suits them! They seem to be created merely to keep as many people employed in their administration as possible.
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Posted By Max Bancroft Quote from an HSE Director "Common sense - the prejudices we acquired before the age of 18". Not sure if it adds anything to the thread but I liked it.
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Posted By Descarte On a similar note as to the post above, note sure if it adds anything to the thread but in my experience the norweigens are far more litigeous and regulated than the UK.
But I guess this could be sector dependant.
Reading a document today 11 offshore accidents '01 - '03 7 were in the UK.
Did any one see the "human price of oil" documentary the other night?
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Posted By Kate Graham I think that quote about common sense comes from Einstein originally!
Kate
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Posted By John McFeely The unfortunate thing is "Common sense is not so common!"
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Posted By Chris Packham Common sense cannot work without knowledge and experience. In my own field of prevention of damage to health from workplace skin exposure I see many situations where "common sense" has dictated action that has actually made the problem worse, simply because the person concerned did not have the knowledge on which to base the correct decision.
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Posted By Merv Newman "Children discover what not to do by experience and eliminating the opportunities for us all to fail and learn will only make us all worse off"
Yes, I learned not to crawl too far out on tree branches. They tend to break. As did my shoulder.
I also learned not to rely too much on the brakes when trying to see how fast my bike would go down hill. I've still got the scar from the handle bar ripping up the inside of my knee.
I could go on. But is there any point ?
"The problem with common sense is that it is not very common and frequently doesn't make sense" (R Heinlein ?)
Merv
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Posted By Max Bancroft Was it Rousseau who recommended the open cut-throat razor method of teaching a child that sharp things were dangerous and possibly fatal. You can guess the technique - give a young child an open cut-throat razor and it would learn quickly not to play with it and use it carefully - if it survived, of course.
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Posted By Danger Ranger I remember seeing the Baked Bean Experiment demonstrated which to some may sound stupid but it was fun to watch and stressed a very strong point.
Tutor stands at table and shows a full can of Heinz baked beans to audience. He makes sure no one had seen the experiment previously.
He then places his middle finger lying flat on the table’s edge.
He holds the can horizontally right up in the air and slams it down on finger with hardest force whilst everyone is watching close up to ensure he did not pull his finger away at the last minute.
He yelps and jumps around holding his finger and wraps it up in a bandage.
After things calm down he ask the audience to quickly jot down the lowest price that it would cost him for them to duplicate the experiment.
He then asked for some volunteers to try the experiment. (I must admit that I thought he was a nutter at this point)
So I ask you all, what is your absolute lowest price for which to allow me to slam down a can of baked beans on your finger as hard as I can?
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Posted By Tabs Does said journalist really believe the H&S law is made on someone's silly whim?
Until the 74 Act, most of the law was made in response to major accidents or major impacts on health. Then came the preventative approach.
We still occasionally see reactive legislation (sports stadia, adventure activities, etc.,) - but the majority is now written using a very good knowledge of what people will do if left to their own devices, and the measures needed to get them to think about what they are doing.
Generally, people seem to be distracted by so many things in life, that having H&S enshrined in law and enforced seems common sense to me.
Baked Beans? Finger? Dent in can, no pain? Thruppence! (but then it's my turn to come up with a daft experiment).
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Posted By Patrick Guyomard The definition of common sense I use is 'the lessons learnt from other people's mistakes'. See above Merv playing Tarzan.
Hazard -something with the potential to cause loss of wages Risk - liklihood of getting sick pay and risk assessment - finding out exactly what you're responsible for
Breaks the ice if nothing else
Pad
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Posted By jackw. The problem with common sense is that it is not a shared phenomenon but individual to experience: we ain’t born with it.. we learn it.
Cheers
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