Posted By Paul Devlin Hi Richie A lot depends on whether it was a "works" night out, if the employers were paying for it then he may be deemed to be still "at work" when the incident occurred. In most cases in the first instance the person should be removed via suspension etc from the vicinity of the "victim" in this case its not happened. Sound particularly harsh as it would seem no arbitration between the people concerned in the incident. I would certainly make moves for unfair dismissal through either union or lawyer and register the persons ET as soon as possible. Paul

Posted By Richie H Thanks, the employer was paying for the meal, as he was paying for in on company amex card. He was later suspended but was approx 1 week after, and after he worked with the employee again.

Posted By Steve B Richie, I heard of this in a previous company I worked for. My understanding of that particular incident was, the night out was arranged by the company and therefore came under the same rules for respect behaviour etc. therefore although out of hours brought the company name into disrepute. Sacked for Gross Missconduct. suggest you speak to HR they have a better understanding than myself with regards employment law. but the person I am talking about logged an appeal and lost...... Steve

Posted By gham I think it's a bit harsh If he lost an appeal he can still request an ET hearing. There is a time limit though so he must act quickly The general conduct of the employee should always be taken into consideration, e.g. has he a record of being abusive or demonstrating poor conduct, remembering that any previous cases that have expired may not be used as a case against him, and also was proximity considered (e.g. heat of the moment drink etc) also sis the victim actually make a complaint. Also the company’s policy should be considered if anything like this has happened before, if it happens again they the precedent has been sent by this action and subsequent gross misconduct under the same/similar circumstances must have the same penalty, and also was the disciplinary carried out in accordance with Shcd 2 of Employment Act. You will need to go through the policy for violence and they companies disciplinary procedure with a fine toothcomb. If he intends to take it to a tribunal, which I’m sure he could, at face value, the he must at least make an appeal first before any subsequent arbitration can take place. In my own opinion there may be a case to answer at an ET but ACAS would be the best persons to speak to for pointers in the right direction

Posted By Mike Draper Richie My first impressions are that yes, the company should have been involved as this incident arises from and could have an impact in the workplace, however the resolution appears to be disproportionate. The individual's behaviour may have been threatening, but what were the other circumstances, i.e. was he provoked, under the influence, over-tired, etc. A more proportionate response may have been to hold some form of counselling session(s) for both parties to air the greivance and agree a resolution in a mature and adult fashion. Only if this failed would it then be appropriate to consider disciplinary action. I'm sure that ACAS would provide specific guidance, but I feel that the individual may have a good case in an ET, particularly if the organisation has not followed its own internal disciplinary procedures or if the company's procedures don't match ACAS guidance. Mike

Posted By RA Richie, I think it would be best to address the threatened party and even though it was an "of the job incident", the effects of the original threat to the aforementioned party is what is to be assessed in this case. It boils down to a bit of common sense- wihtout really knowing what happened means it is a bit hard to judge, but lets be honest if someone threatened from work threatened you after work- wouldn't you be wary of this at work? I do appreciate it is a bit of an uncertain one- but you can't permit it to escalate. I definitely agree sacking may not have been the best move, I would have opted for a stern warning with a set time given to show it was a one off. I was at a Christmas Party where an altercation took place and when we looked into it- the fella that threw the first blow, although out of order, was extremely provoked and a warning was issued to both parties at work as soon as we returned. RESUTL: The lad that threw the blow is still with us as he showed a great deal of improved professionalism, however the same could not be said for the provoker- he continued to thow jibes at others, which he received his final red card. RA