Posted By Anwar Afzal Whilst i am sure of what the answer to my question is going to be, i would other opnions. We have a number of elderly schemes where we employ a manager, who looks after the running of the scheme during the day, he/she may also have a domestic assistant at the scheme. No care is provided to the residents other than day to day queries. There usually over 50 flats, with communal corridors, and lounges, kitchens, library etc. Some schemes may be 5/6/7 storey high. They do not have fire fighting equipment because it is alleged that previously they were informed by the fire service there was no requirement for such, and i find this hard to believe. The main person responsible is choosing to follow that guideline of advice, and is hesitating to supply these schemes with the equipment, because of any cost implication and that managers will have to trained in fire and other safety courses. She would like no training provided as then they would be more aware of safety and this incurs costs. Where do i stand?

Posted By Anwar Afzal Kate I just think they are making excuses for not spending the money and training the staff. We have merged with this company and i have inherited the problem, and it seems they are in a different world and safety has never been part of that regime. And i am intefering in their world

Posted By Kate Graham As the fire risk assessment guide assumes that extinguishers will normally be needed (I forget the exact wording but there is something along these lines) the risk assessment will have to justify any decision not to provide them. "Someone thinks they remember someone from the fire brigade once telling them it was OK" isn't going to stand up. I don't think there is a plausible justification for this type of premises (bearing in mind there are fire hazards in the common areas and it is also a workplace) but it would certainly have to be more convincing than that. Kate

Posted By rjhills I was responsible for a similar set-up a few years ago, and the fire brigade classed our premises as a "class 1 response". When there was a kitchen fire, with the smike alarn activating a fire alarm response, we had the ambulance service turn up as well as the firee brigade, As for fire fighting equipment, get yourself as copy of the Fire Recautions Regs 1971. Which will help enormously. Training in fire fighting equipment is also essential, as is the prevention of smoke spread where vulnerable people are concerned, especially in "out of hours" situations. If your manager is reluctant to provide equipment because of cost,if I were you I would be looking elsewhere to a more responsible organisation, or pointing out, (in writing) to the reluctant spender, her legal responsibilities. You speak of multi story occupancy also. If you speak to your local fire authoity they are very keen on fire safety plans for multi occuopancy buildings, (especially where the elderly or infirm are concerned) Take my advice and consult the Force Senior Safety Fire Officer. What your boss thinks will swiftly become irrelevent when they visit one of your premises. I keep in tough with the fire servic regularly, as the frequent contact is useful in enabling you to become and remain aware of the named fire officer responsible for your area..

Posted By Ashley Wood Take a look on the following web site www.thermatech.uk.com there is an update on the 'Rose Park' fire. Regarding what the brigade said or did not say, I think what was probably hinted at was that the brigade prefer people to 'get out and stay out' rather than risk becoming another casualty by trying to tackle a fire. There is a big debate about this. However, let me pose a hypothetical situation. A visitor to the premises one evening smells smoke coming from a flat, the alarms go off but he/she is first on the scene and he knows that little old Gladys lives in that flat. He/she instinctively looks for a fire extinguisher in the corridor to use in an attempt to carry out a rescue (brave sole that he or she is). Unfortunately there isn't one so he/she has a choice, continue with the rescue or run and leave poor old Gladys behind! Another scenario, maintenance man working on boiler doing hot works (should have a hot work permit but hasn't) starts a small fire that could easily be extinguished. Looks for a fire extinguisher but can't find one. Small fire becomes big fire and major life is lost. See where I am going with this? For what little it costs, fit fire extinguishers and train the manager. Its all about 'what if' but I would rather be saying to my self 'what if I hadn't insisted on the fire extinguishers'.

Posted By Scott d Hi Anwar, You may have already come across this document but I thought I would include it just in case. This is the newly published guidance for fire risk assessment and how to comply with the new regulations due in October. There are currently six different guidance books published for a range of premises, but I have included the one I believe most relevant to you. This document is in my opinion probably the best produced for any guidance to date. I think that the issues have been covered sufficiently in your replies, so I will just add one thing. The new regulations put a much higher responsibility on your fire risk assessment and advice given previously will give little comfort if something goes wrong. You would have to have one hell of a good reason not to recommend fire fighting equipment in your fire risk assessment. http://www.communities.g...sfullguide_id1501886.pdf