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Posted By Jason911
We completed a RIDDOR recently for the 3 day rule for a simple slip/trip/fall with no cause other than the employee lost their footing.
For the first time ever I have received a letter from the local EHO asking for various other information 'before they decide what action they need to take as a result of the accident'
Does that statement sound biased or pre-concieved to anyone else, or is my paranoid schizaphrenia kicking in?
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Posted By JEFFREY SMITH
Could be that there was some information on the RIDDOR that was lacking and they want to see it completely wrapped up.
Otherwise, no, shouldn't get paranoid.
Ah, better duck, sirens coming closer, can see men in white coats coming my way...
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Posted By ITK
As STF's are a priority topic area, its the reason it is being looked at. I shouldn't worry too much.
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Posted By Robert Kite
As you know EHO's have delegated powers to enforce H&S and it may be that your Local Authority has had an increase in slips/trips/fall incidents and is paying particluar attention to these reports.
I woulldn't worry too much as this is after all what they are paid to do. You shouldn't worry too much about enforcement either as Improvement Notices are particularly helpful (they tend to identify the problem and leave you time to remedy). It is very unlikely a prosecution would follow such a minor event but in any case a route of appeal exists for this and for any Notices issued.
Robert Kite (robertkite@safetyacademy.co.uk)
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Posted By Saracen11
Hi Jason 911, if the STF was as a result of the person 'falling over their own feet' then any EHO/H&S Inspector will acknowledge this and take no further action on completion of their investigation (and yours).
Robert, you are correct that any formal action can be challenged through the appeals process but any notice served by an EHO/H&S Inspector should have been issued following the EMM and therefore should be warrented. It is true that sometimes a notice will be overturned, but on the whole, they stand the appeals process because the officer serving it is an experienced person and will have followed their unit procedure notes and the EMM.
As for STF being a "minor" incident... I suggest a check of HSE accident statistics, this is why STF is one of the priority areas.
Regards
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Posted By CRT
Jason.
as everyone else has stated, stf`s are currently a priority area for HSE and LA`s, consequently you will find that what might appear to be "minor" incidents are now being looked at more closely, hence the letter. If everyone reacts in the same way to a request for info, then awareness of stf`s probably increases.
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Posted By Andrew Brown
Standard legal speak your letter.
When at HSE we would sometimes send such letters after minor incidents to make sure the duty holder had done a proper investigation, learnt the lessons and made changes.
Bascially if you make a decent fist of your investigation they can write it off, job done, with out a visit by an inspector. So as long as it was only a minor incident make sure you reply and have jumped through all the hoops.
However i worked for HSE and you're dealing with an EHO....
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Posted By CRT
Andrew,
"however i worked for HSE and your dealing with an EHO", bet everyone feels reassured by that statement.
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Posted By Jason911
Surely ones as bad as the other?
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Posted By ITK
Andrew: what were you implying with your last sentence "However i worked for HSE and you're dealing with an EHO...."
Jason: likewise your statement "Surely ones as bad as the other?"
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Posted By Jason911
Oh come on ITK, I was only joshing!
All together now, 'I'd like to teach the world to sing......'
Jay
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Posted By terry mallard
I had to bite my tougue when i read your comments about us Regulators, however there has been a known inconsistency in how Inspectors enforce due to many reasons, competency/training of Inspectors could be said to have been just some of them.This, amongst other Regulators ways of working is being adressed.
That is to not to say that the thread contained all the facts of why the request was made?........
HS Inspector
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Posted By Bunny
Actually it's HM Inspector of H&S, which means you're probably an EHO. Not as well qualified or as well trained and usually dealing with lower risks than HSE inspectors, which is why some EHO's tend to go over the top when it comes to some areas. Then again the training of current HSE inspectors is awful and the current policy of recruiting inspectors with no degree is outrageous and the current policy of only inspecting the priority topics is downright dangerous. I left the employmewnt of the HSE because I believe their current operating policies are inadequate, unethical and a disgrace to the whole ethos of health and safety.
Just my opinion.
I guess I've just lit the blue touch paper so I'll stand well back...
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Posted By Jason911
Stand well back? Run for the hills more like!!!
Although, hats off to you if you actually had morals enough to leave the HSE for those reasons as opposed to financial ones!
Jay
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Posted By Max Bancroft
Could you explain what the current way of training HSE inspectors is and in what way it is deficient please. In a few paragraphs. This sounds interesting.
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Posted By Bunny
Well I would but for some reason my post has been removed.
I would like the moderators to explain why.
I did not swear, I did not put any one individual down, I was not offensive.
I gave my opinion of the enforcment authorities in this country based on the knowledge I have of working for them. I have nothing against the inspectors themselves just the organisation and it's policies.
I have every right to that view. If IOSH moderators have gone so far as to prevent IOSH members from giving opinion then I will withdraw my membership from IOSH.
It is s afct that EHO's do not have to be as highly qualified as HSE inspectors, it is a fact that EHO's deal with LA premises that have lesser risks. It is afct that HSE inspectors no longer have to have adegree to get into the HSE. It is a fact that HSE inspectors are restricted to the priority topics when inspecting.
On what basis do the IOSH moderators feel they have the right to censor what I said!
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Posted By ITK
QUOTE: It is s afct that EHO's do not have to be as highly qualified as HSE inspectors.
Please tell me what qualification you need to be a HSE inspector as I recently read an interview with a trainee inspector who had the NEBOSH Certificate.
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Posted By Jason911
Well said bunny! Does the HSE really have so much power over this forum as to not want to offend it? I don't however believe that this would have been the case as both posts were factual, non derogatory and clearly represented both sides of the coin.
I too would be interested in the reason for B.B removing the posts.
Thank you
Jay
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Posted By Bunny
Well if they hadn't removed my post I would have directed you back to it. Because what I said later in my post was that since last year trainee inspectors are now recruited without a degree, a fact I think is outrageous. HSE inspectors used to have to have a degree as all inspectors were put through the Post Graduate Health and Safety Diploma. I was always told (from within the HSE) that EHO's were not trained to that level.
I have nothing against EHO's I was just pulling his leg about not being as well qualified because he signed himself off as a HS Inspector, whereas HSE inspectors are actually titled as HM Inspector of Health and Safety. I was just being a tease. As it happens I currently work alongside ex-EHO's. There are good EHO's and bad EHO's just as there's good HSE inspectors and bad HSE inspectors.
People on this forum don't have a sense of humour though.
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Posted By Jason911
Oh come on everybody, all together now " I'd like to teach the world to sing........."
Jay
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Posted By CRT
Without wanting to prolong this thread, which seems to have gone off track, just like to point out that yes there are inconsistencies amongst enforcers as there are amongst H&S practitioners, after all no one`s perfect. I would also add that having a degree or being CMIOSH does`nt neccessarily make you competent, after all do police officers need a degree to enforce the law ?, i`m sure it would be interesting to know how many ex HSE OR LA officers are now in the private sector
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Posted By Jason911
I was recently advised by an HSE trainer that the majority of HSE literature is aimed at a level of understanding equal to undergraduate.
So the whole things seems very strange. Unless the HSE is employing people and then training them to the appropiate level, which is to be applauded.
Jay
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