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#1 Posted : 15 August 2006 15:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By RA Afternoon All, I have come across a situation in one of our projects which is currently undergoing demolition, where after removing the floor(6-9 inch thick concrete)and upon begining to remove the soil under this, we have come across cement asbestos pieces- these pieces range from the size of an average man's hand to half of a small finger. The soil is too compacted to start work by hand. I have spoken to the HSE and they are happy with the controls, but, I am concerned regarding what should be done with the soil- bearing in mind that it is concrete asbestos- would the soil containing this have to be removed as part of the hazardous waste. I tried the local LA, they seem quite unsure and they want to speak to one of their more senior inspectors. If anyone out there could possible provide any advice this would be greatly appreciated. RA
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#2 Posted : 15 August 2006 16:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson We have experience of this mate. basically if it is bonded ( cement) then you should pick out the bits you can, spryed with a surfactant solution, blokes in type five fibreproof overalls and P3 masks, if the rest is less than 1% of toatal then can go to landfill as spoil if it is above this then should go as asbetsos contaminated waste (expensive!!). email me if you want to discuss.
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#3 Posted : 15 August 2006 16:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By The toecap I assume a site survey was carried out. I'm sure that it has to be classed as special waste. Look at Environmental Protection (special waste) regs 1996 as amended. I stand corected if i'm wrong. I'm looking through stuff now to find other info'.
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#4 Posted : 15 August 2006 16:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By RA Nice One Guys for the quick repsonse. Yes we have had a site survey carried out- soil analysis(boreholes) and a type 3 asbestos survey, but as this is only a small area in relation to the site size the evidence did not show the presence of these pieces. Thanks Again, RA
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#5 Posted : 15 August 2006 16:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Special waste regs repealed dont look in Hazardous Waste Regs 2005 as its not mentioned
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#6 Posted : 15 August 2006 16:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By The toecap I've identified something in the European Waste Catalogue and Hazardous Waste List. Section 17. Entitled Construction and demolition Waste (including excavated soil from contaminated sites) Section 17/06/05. If i had an electronic copy I would gladly send it to you
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#7 Posted : 15 August 2006 16:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson That deals with 170605 is the EWC code for construction waste which was formely called 'bonded asbestos' 170601 is insulation material contaminted with asbests which was formly 'fibrous'. Contaminated land is a different thing if its less than 1% per weight per volume then its not classed as 'contaminated'. The point in question is - if its contaminated construction waste 170605 then it is expensive as the whole load will have to be classified as such, if its below the threshold then its not so it is cheaper to dispose off. so pick the bits out and dispose off as non hazardous
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#8 Posted : 15 August 2006 17:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By RA I wish we could get at the lower levels, but the soil is far too compacted. I explained this to the HSE and they have said in accordance with my proposals it would be ok to go ahead with excavating and then going through the soil. But my problem is- what should we doing with this soil as it has contained these pieces for an unknown large period of time- this was the question I want the EA to advise on, but sooooo far to no avail. Cheers Again Guys, RA
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#9 Posted : 16 August 2006 09:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter MacDonald I agree with DW but what I find is the best solution is to send a sample which represents what you would send to landfill to a compnay who can analyse the content. Send the results to the tip you intend to send the stuff to. They will confirm wether they can take it and how much it will cost. Some tips will refuse to take enything that has any asbestos cement in it while others are happy with the 1% rule. I would recommend making a spread and handpicking unless the soil is riddled in which case it's contaminated and it's bad luck. It does not take long to get an analysis and takes the subjectivity out of any later problems on what went where and why. Peter
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#10 Posted : 16 August 2006 11:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt So hypothetically, if analysis shows that it is say 2% ACM can you dilute this with other non ACM contaminated soil to bring it down to 1%. I don't know the charges but would imagine that 2 tons to normal landfill is cheaper than one ton of haz waste to be processed? Jeff
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#11 Posted : 16 August 2006 11:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter MacDonald the solution to polution is dilution
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#12 Posted : 16 August 2006 12:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Peter Your a poet and didn't realise it Jeff ;p
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#13 Posted : 17 August 2006 16:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Jeffrey it's poets tomorrow! agree however what you going to dilute with if its all contaminated and not just with Asi!
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#14 Posted : 17 August 2006 16:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Peter Don't know. No trade secrets but in a previous life we had a very reactive waste by product and a very inert waste by product. The blending of the two made a still very inert by product due to the dilution effect, about 10 inert to 1 reactive. Only a suggestion, never had to deal with ACM disposal so not qualified to say whether this is a legal/proper/moral route to disposal for ACM's. Jeff
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#15 Posted : 17 August 2006 17:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By RA Got the confirmation from the EA- so long as its under hard standing- they are happy enough with us to go ahead with the H&S controls in place. Happy Days!! Cheers Lads
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#16 Posted : 17 August 2006 17:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Sorry Dave not Peter. How is the shoe sales business?
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#17 Posted : 17 August 2006 19:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson Classify it in accord with TG EM2 Interpretation and classification of hazardous waste (Fig 3.1 page 9), obtainable on the EA web site, you'll find you do not have to classify it as hazardous waste if the waste does not possess hazardous properties or it does not contain more than 0.1% asbestos by weight. Asbestos cement has a density of around 1400 Kg.M-3 contains ~10% of asbestos Furthermore, if you do decide it is hazardous waste, you cannot mix it without a waste management license. Regards Adrian Watson
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#18 Posted : 17 August 2006 20:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson Classify it in accord with TG EM2 Interpretation and classification of hazardous waste (Fig 3.1 page 9), obtainable on the EA web site, you'll find you do not have to classify it as hazardous waste if the waste does not possess hazardous properties or it does not contain more than 0.1% asbestos by weight. Asbestos cement has a density of around 1400 Kg.m-3 and contains ~10% of asbestos by weight (Asbestos and cement have similar densities: asbestos has a density of 2451 kg.m-3 and concrete has a density of 2307 kg.m-3). Take 20 random samples of 0.01 m-3 of soil and rubble from accross the site; weight it, pick out the big pieces then screen it and sieve it; weight the total weight of the asbestos cement pieces and divide their weight by 10. If this weight is less than 0.1% by weight it is not hazardous waste. If it exceeds 0.1% you have to decide whether the waste exhibits hazardous properties. You need a large scale that weighs up to 15 Kg and a smaller scale that weighs 150 gm in 1 gm increments. Furthermore, if you do decide it is hazardous waste, you cannot mix it without a waste management license. Regards Adrian Watson
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#19 Posted : 18 August 2006 11:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martin Gray We had a similar situation with regards to asbestos contaminated soil the HSE required the top 6inches to be treated as asbestos contaminated waste and this was placed in lined skips and taken to a licensed waste disposal site. Looks as though the HSE have no set procedure for dealing with this issue or guidance to their inspectors.
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#20 Posted : 18 August 2006 12:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Why? Because Contaminated land is specifically exempt from the CAWRegs 2002
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#21 Posted : 30 August 2006 16:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By JasonGould Dave I am a bit confused about the statement that CAW2000 regs do not apply to contaminated land. Is there some specific law that exempts CAW2000 from contaminated land?? If any civil engineering work was to take place on any land and it is likely to disturb asbestos, would this not be controlled by CAW2000 and the Licensing regs. If not what does? I am just thinking something must protect workers whom may be doing vital civil works on contaminated land regarding asbestos that may be present. Leaving out cement based asbestos for a second and presuming that there are other more dangerous forms present and these have been identified via survey. Thanks for any advice and clarification Jason
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