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Posted By Anwar Afzal
How often does leglislation state that these have to be maintained, weekly, monthly, quaterly?
A EHO has stated that we have to do this weekly and i am not convinced, and it would not be praticable in some of our schemes.
Any offers?
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Posted By CRT
Suprise suprise the frequency Should be identified through your risk assessment, the ACOP only refers to periodic cleaning and disinfection.
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Posted By Stephen D. Clarke
In a previous job in the chemical industry mid 1990s we had our emergency shower heads cleaned in bleach every 3 months and then allowed a 15 minutes water flow. Currently I work for a local authority and our water treatment contractors test the hot water temperature every month at every sink in every site. This happens where there appears to be no chance of water aerosol being created e.g. small rural library with 1 sink for staff use no showers. It's not my department and seems OTT to me but I guess we are following advice from the contractor. I think the Barrow case has made property maintenance people understandably jumpy.
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Posted By gham
How often do the showers get used if they are standing for weeks on end, and i mean weeks then you may need to look at them but if only a few days at a time then i wouldn't bother
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Posted By J Knight
I have to add a rider to the previous post. If you take a shower head apart you may find brown gunk all round the inside of it; this is biofilm and will harbour various nasty organisms including legionella and various pseudomonads. If water enters the shower head at less than 60 degrees C (and it really should) you will have almost perfect conditions for biofilm formation in there. Irrespective of frequency of use you should be keeping your shower heads clean. The advice that you don't need to bother if they're well used is appropriate insofar as it is concerned with movement of water in a potential dead-leg, it is not appropriate in terms of preventing build-up of biofilm in the shower head itself. In fact, a rarely used shower head, which gets a chance to dry out, is less likely to suffer from biofilm build-up,
John
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt
Support The Knight re biofilm
CIBSE TM 13 says quarterly. Many showers use thermostatic mixers to stop folks scalding themselves. The mixers usually have strainers these reduce water velocity and drop out any gunk in the water, these can also build up in biofilm.
Observational science. Take the cistern lid off your toilet at home, look at the bottom of the cistern. Depending on the water quality where you live and how old your toilet is this can be slightly coffe stained in colour right through to completely black. All this gunk adds to biofilm.
Kind regards
Jeff
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Posted By Anwar Afzal
So would you say weekly checks is over the top? the scheme is a young persons hostel.
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Posted By gham
Progressivly take longer breaks between checks to determine how long the biofilm takes to build
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Anwar,
Agree with previous poster; moderate your checks downwards but start a bit OTT. In a young-persons hostel you may not have particularly vulnerable people, so the risk of a fatality may be lower, but you really can't mess with Legionella; remember Barrow. There was one in the news recently, a death in hospital from dirty shower-heads, can't remember the details,
John
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Posted By Peter Taylor14
Of all the shower heads in all the world how many incidents of legionella have there been recorded?
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Posted By Stuart McPhaden
Referring back to previous posts, what does your risk assessment recommend and has a written scheme been developed to implement control measures. Also guidance is given in the ACOP checklist 2- Hot and cold water services, saying that shower heads and hoses should be dismantled, cleaned, de-scaled quarterly or as necessary (by inspection)
Whilst you should 'regularly' clean the head be aware of any rooms that are unused (for around a week) and undertake flushing with fresh water (hot and cold) to prevent the formation of deadlegs (back contamination issues etc).
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Posted By J Knight
Peter,
Nobody knows tiddley pom. The risk however is high; legionella occurs in all sources of fresh water, and conditions in shower heads (vis biofilm) are perfect to allow legionella growth. To enlarge on my previous post; legionellosis in vulnerable people (or indeed in anybody, just more likely in the vulnerable) manifests as varying types of chest infection, ranging from flu like symptoms to pneumonia. It is of course the latter that kills, and nobody knows, worldwide, or even for certina within the UK, how many pneumonia deaths are due to which pathogen. And you may note that my post mentions a death due to dirty showers within the last month or so.
If you are implying that so few people die that its not worth the trouble I would urge you to consider the phrase 'reasonably practicable'. Most builders walking about on high structures without barriers don't fall off, its amazing just how often you can ride in the bucket of a back-hoe without injury, and unguarded machines have been run for years without hurting anybody. Why don't we just all give up and go home... Sheesh, if I sound sarcastic and your question is made in a genuine spirit of enquiry please forgive me,
John
John
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Posted By Anwar Afzal
Thank you everyone for your comments, and will draw a plan of action from this.
I had thought that there must have been a hard and fast rule when the EHO stated that they mus be checked weekly.
Once again Thanks everyone.
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