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Posted By Mick Day
Having read the thread regarding Barry and his daughter, it reminded me of a question that my 15 year old son asked somtime in June this year.
Do school pupils fall under te Welfare Regs in relation to the temperature of classrooms. Apparently the room temp at one point was measured at 28 Degrees Celsius. Which does not lend itself to learning science or maths (Shakespeare being the worst one)
Just curious as to what kind of rights / regs cover the kids.
Any guidance is appreciated.
PS.........Can the moderators not cut off threads in full flow, Top debate Barry. Hope your daughter recovers ok.
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Posted By Jack
No they don't, but any member of staff present - and there usually will be one - will be covered so - - -.
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Posted By Mat
I think we should stop pampering the Kids, just send them to school with an extra jumper or 2.
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Posted By Jan Moore
No. The poor souls are 'members of the public'.!!!
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Posted By Maggie Atterbury
Jan and Jack are absolutly right, Health and Safety Legislation is about the safety of people at work and thus does not cover children at school, however they are "members of the public" who could be affected by our undertaking. It is difficult to keep classrooms at an even temperature when it is hot outside, so apart from fans and the use of blinds, we do not really have an answer. Where possible, some classes have been working outside in the shade through the summer.
P.S. I am not sure why Mat thinks they need extra jumpers when it is 28 degrees Celcius - they would melt!
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Posted By Ken Taylor
Please don't get the idea that school children are entirely left out when it comes to health and safety. There are regulations, DfES standards and guidance various school design guides, building bulletins, inspection regimes as well as duties under Section 3, etc of the Health and Safety at Work, etc Act. Temperature in schools is a matter of guidance with diffent levels set for different areas and activities and, by way of comparison, there's no legal top limit for workplaces anyway.
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Posted By Ali
Legally, schoolchildren are not employees and therefore not covered. However, schools can impose their own school "rules" if they so wish.
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Posted By Exdeeps
If I may muddy the waters a bit, I know that the pupils are not employees, however, the "Guide to the Law" issued to all school governors by the DFES, states in the H&S chapter that for purposes of RIDDOR and H&S in general that schools should consider their pupils to be employees. The guide to the law is available in pdf format on the DFES website - check out chapter 15, para 2.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Ok, muddying the waters, maybe a bit too much, but if a school child should be regarded as an employee, what happens if he/she gets pregnant ? are they entitled to maternity/paternity leave ?
Merv
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Posted By Ken Taylor
Hi Merv. Good one!
The DfES guide just says something like when you are working out your first-aid needs you should take the pupils into account.
School pupils are persons who may be affected by work activity of an employer and, as such, are owed duties under HASAWA - in addition to other legislation, common law and contract.
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Posted By Jerry Sanderson
There are minimum temperatures for classrooms, gyms etc. and first aid rooms outlined in The Education (School Premises) Regulations. There is as was earlier pointed out no maximum temperature defined as indeed there isn't for employees in the Welfare Regs. This is an ongoing problem for schools every year in the same way that it is for many other workplaces and there will be different solutions for different circumstances.
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Posted By energy saver
Ok, children are not classed as employees but surely the teacher teaching in the same classroom is.
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Posted By Exdeeps
OK, a real situation where the teacher (Employee) is not present but welfare provision is required. My 14 year old son let it slip last week that there is no time allowed for showers after PE - even if playing rugby in the rain first thing in the morning. Not just a case of boys not being bothered to shower but the school uses the showers to store chairs so the showers can't be used even if you wanted to.
A breach of the welfare requirements or a very clever way to eliminate the Legionella hazard presented by the domestic water system?
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Posted By Pugwash
No showers available or no time to take them? In either case forget you are a health and safety person with a knowledge of the law and go and talk to the headteacher as a parent. All children should be able to shower after sport regardless of whether it is stipulated in rules and regulations somewhere. Its just good sense. Let's not get too hung up on the legalities of it. I have difficulties imagining a school without showers or maybe I am out of touch with modern education.
Cold showers after games did me the world of good and helped make me what I am today:-) No legionella problems then - but then we did not even know about the problem.
Respeto etc
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Posted By Mick Day
Many thanks to all for the responses.
Apologies for delay, have been on hols and have kept quiet since getting drawn into a debate re Jack of All Trades. I should have known better, but in my fit of anger felt compelled to answer back....!
I notice a significant amount of discussion re
Threads / Timewasters / Wind Up Merchants.....
All I can say is keep the discussions going as not only are they educational, but sometimes humerous; which after a day battling the Evil Tyrants who see Health &Safety Safety as something to be quashed is somehow a theraputic relief for my toils.
Apologies if my comments were viewed as a negative aspect of the Forum, but as is often the case passion gets the better..........!
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