Posted By AJM

I just wondered what peoples opinion or experiences in the following scenario are. We have a lot of foreign workers supplied by an agency the agency is now trying to give us polish fork truck drivers saying that other companies are taking them, so my company thinks I am being over cautious. I have always be brought up in companies where at the very least you had to supply a british license if not even trained on your own site. I believe this is not legislation but best practice.

I mean If there was an accident how could you prove they were competent to drive and How would you stand with regards the agency i mean they are classed as employed by them so are paid by them even though they are on our site, surely they have a duty too to ensure they are supplying a fully qualified person.

I would love opinion or experience on this issue please.

Alan

Posted By AJM

Exactly my point Merv, I agree with you but my company doesnt and the agency is telling them we are one of the few making a stance like this (well I am) But surely this is remiss of the agency.

Also Merv are you saying if they send a guy with an proper english certificate you should still test them on site. I mean durely training cert by an accredtited body is acceptable.

Posted By Is Kismet
FLT licence is current? There is no specified period for FLT licences other that what the trainer puts on them.

Posted By Is Kismet
Meaning there is no specified expiry on FLT licences. Trainers can put any time they like - but it should be clearly understood there is no legal requirement to undertake further tests to renew a licence.

IOSH do this on some of their working/managing safety courses but it has no legal standing.

Posted By AJM
But people are not answering my point about the agency that sends the drivers.

Firstly Imagine if there is an accident how would you prove their certificate was valid the onus is on us to ensure we are happy with the people on our trucks which i agree with but following on from this the Agency who is their employer should be positive they are sending us competent drivers so tell me how do they know they are competent, well they dont obviously and is very remiss of them to send them claiming so surely.

Secondly i would even doubt if our insurance would cover us under those circumstances should the unthinkable happen.

Now the solution and this theoretically should apply to all drivers we have on site who have not been trained by us. But I would still argue why we are footing the bill when an agency should be sending us people they are confident are competent.

These agency's are really starting to get in my claw these days. Answers on a post card lol

Alan

Posted By Bob Youel

Trust at your peril - test them yourself / get the agy to test them to UK standards - just because other companies are putting their hands in the fire does not mean that you have to

At the least put a case to your boss in writing putting onus on her/him to decide

Posted By Howard

I had a national Plant forklift licence which only had a 3 year life this was in 1998.

Maybe things have since changed

Howard

Posted By Philip McAleenan
Alan,

The issue of proving competency applies whether the FLT driver has a British licence or any other one. The licence demonstrates that they have undertaken training and passed assessment. This applies whether the licence is British or Polish. Unless you have evidence that assessment bodies in countries other than Britain consistently issue licences to drivers who are not competent, then accept that the licences presented are valid.

Your company also uses this agency for the employment of other workers. Their continued use of this agency would suggest that your company is satisfied that they are compentent to select and refer employees to you. Again why your concern with the agency’s choice of Polish FLT drivers? You state with certainty that the agency does not know that they are competent, but how do you know this? Is it because the drivers perform incompetently when on your site? And if so is it some, most or all? The answewer to this will validate or negate your concerns.

If you want to put your mind at ease and satisfy yourself of the competency of individual drivers as they arrive on site irrespective of what licence they present to you, there is a lot of good advice here already.

You also doubt that your insurers would cover you in this situation. Again, set your mind at ease, go talk to them, describe your concerns and put them in the picture. Remember there is an ongoing obligation to keep your insurers fully informed of matters that will impact upon the cover they offer. With this information they will decide either that everything is OK, or that your company will have to take appropriate action to remedy the siutuation and they will adjust the level of cover/premium accordingly.

Regards, Philip

Posted By Is Kismet
Where has Polish come into this? It is certainly not from the original contributor and I can't see why this nationality is being singled out for commment.

Posted By Is Kismet
On re-reading you're right it does, but it is not restricted to Polish workers surely?

I missed the reference to Polish because the p is in lower case, my fault completely.

Posted By Jeffrey Watt
First time for everything eh Is?

Posted By Geoff Ferneyhough
Rider-Operated lift trucks Operator training L117 para 47 gives guidance on the requirements for Further operator training and monitoring of standards.

It also states that the guiding principle is that employers need to maintain the competence of operators to use lift trucks safely through a laid down, formal process of monitoring and assessment.

We routinely re assess all our forklift operators every three years, all new starters with licences are checked to ensure competence in our working environment.

With the variety of truck types and variations in workplace layouts and associated hazards and varying standards of training provided checking the competence of any new member of staff with a forklift licence is a sensible control.

Regards

Geoff

Posted By Robert Paterson
Hi Mark

Sorry for butting in on this thread. Mark, you mention in your posting of free web translation. I am looking for such a site to help me translate Health and Safety Induction information. Is it possible to send me the details of the website.

Regards
Robert Paterson

Posted By Salus
AJM, my advice would be carry out competency (you probally do this already)checks on the agency,ask for their insurance details,HS policy,RA,ask to see how they assess the people they take on and make sure you get a reply. I would spell out (and record)to what standards and requirements the drivers the agency send you must meet before they operate on your site.

If they supply training documents make sure you check their validy and take copies.

You then carry out your RA, induction (ensure all understand and sign),monitor their work and enforce your policy / procedures if you are not happy with their actions.

these are the sort of things a "reasonable company" would carry out and would stand you in good stead if things went wrong.

Any probs with management ,your job is to prevent injury, damage and keep the company out of court, tell them that and your work is done, they are management let them manage.

hope this helped

Posted By Is Kismet
Not at all JJ, its good to clear up any misunderstandings, and I'd already explained the reason for the polish (sic) error.

But I'm still confused by:

If these polish (sic) workers have got an English FLT license which is current, by which i mean they've taken a test in the last 3 years that is fine.

It indicates to me that their particular English FLT licence is valid for 3 years only!!

Posted By Is Kismet
Got it. Thanks.

Posted By JayJay
Theres no such thing as a Forklist truck either haha !! read your last comment !!!

Posted By Merv Newman
Please let me go right back to the beginning and perhaps close out this thread.

1. you have an unknown (I was going to say strange) person who is presented to you as a competent FLT driver. It really really doesn't matter if that person is a foreigner or not. It really really doesn't matter how old the "license" or certificate of competence is. Don't trust it.

2. Do your normal safety induction for truckies.

3. Take 10 minutes to observe that person as they drive the truck. Are they competent ? Your judgement. Your responsibility. Off-site now ! or maintain.

4. At the end of the first day/shift ask the local supervisor for his opinion. Off-site now or maintain.

5. Annually we asked supervisors to "sign-off" on each of their truckies. OK or needs a refresher.

6. All truckies had a two-yearly refresher training.

7. In case of any significant incident the truckies permit to drive was automatically suspended until the inquiry group decided if they need retraining or not. (did it once and got hell from the distribution manager)

8. I have known, over the years, innumerable incidents of damage to racks, to lorries, to walls, to people. The worst was an eventual amputation of the leg. The most amusing (for those with my sense of humour) was a supervisor who had both feet run over. (No damage because of safety shoes but the vocabulary employed by the supervisor whilst requesting the truckie to get off his second foot was quite educational)

AJM : Do you have FLT training ? If not get help/advice from someone who does.

Enough said I hope.

Merv