Posted By Paul Adams A ship has a continuous upper deck, a boat doesn't. A "Continuous Upper Deck" is defined as a continuous deck which covers either the overall length of the vessel or the length between perpendiculars (can't remember which) and is above the waterline.

Posted By Tony Brunskill This is a bit of a guess but is it not true that once your Pilot takes control of the vessel it is no longer in the control of its "Master" and therefore the regulations would apply. The Port Marine Safety Code would probably apply to the operations of getting the pilots to and from the vessels. May also be worth researching the providence of the regulations as the Act may include exceptions for "sea going vessels".

Posted By Sarah O'Brien Hi Glyn We must be in the same business, had the same problems also Marine Reps raised similar problem regarding the vibration and noise regs, do they apply to the pilot launches? is the pilot a passenger or is he crew? Even the HSE couldn't answer and the MCA just said that regarding enforcement the HSE would take precedent so contact them !!!

Posted By Glyn Phillips Sarah, we may be in the same line of work. If you contact me 'off line' we may have other issues in common that we might help each other with. Regards Glyn

Posted By Merv Newman Totally out of my expertise, but I always understood that a "boat" could be loaded onto and transported by a "ship" so a "pilot boat" could carry a pilot to a "ship" where he/she would become a "passenger" advising and under the command of the captain. Perhaps size does count after all. Merv

Posted By Chris Packham Just to confuse the issue! A "ship" was originally a sailing vessel with a minimum of three masts, square rigged on all masts. This is why most modern vessels, even supertankers, are usually classified as MV (i.e. motor vessels).

Posted By Glyn Phillips I would like to thank all of those who responded to my seemingly simple query. Over the course of the last few weeks, whilst researching this subject, some things have become clearer to me. 1 / Whilst most people can give you a definition of a ship / boat / vessel / craft etc. they tend to be based on historical or plain wrong info (however amusing some of them are) 2 / There is no legal definition of a 'ship'. I have spoken to various people, organisations and government departments, none of which can help with this query. I have been in contact with the Legal Director at Lloyds Register of Shipping who was most helpful. However, he states that there is no legal definition of ‘ship’ as opposed to vessel, craft or boat. The dictionary definitions of 'ship', 'boat' and 'vessel' are interchangeable. Blacks Legal Dictionary, the pre-eminent legal dictionary, cross references ships, boats and vessels. He also states, that as far as he is aware there is no case law that has decided this issue. This leaves me with somewhat of a problem. Article 2, RRFSO, defines a premises, to which the Order applies as (a) any workplace; (b) any vehicle, vessel, aircraft or hovercraft;. Yet Article 6 specifically excludes ‘a ship’ from the order. If, in a legal sense, a ship, boat or vessel are in fact the same thing, you cannot include one but exclude another as this makes the text of the Order contradictory. I have been advised to write to the government department that drafted the order and point out this apparent error to them and ask that they clarify the definitions or redraft the legislation. (laughs out load as he types). Somehow I don’t think this will work. Does anybody out in the ether have a view from a legal perspective on my comments, above? Glyn

Posted By Dave Wilson When its a submarine! Ships (skimmers) are targets!

Posted By Adrian Watson The best source of law on this are the admiralty courts and words and phrases judicially defined. Like you I looked at the merchant shipping acts and lo and behold no joy. I suspect that this is a matter of fact and not law. Regards Adrian Watson

Posted By shaun mckeever I'm with you Dave, 'Daisy' is a target!

Posted By Paul Adams Dave/Shaun, I can only conclude that you both glow in the dark and have pale complexions and know Helensbrough intimately ;-)

Posted By Philby' Ship, to send, dispatch, convey, transport is it a bit like 'to hoover' and has slipped into common usage many moons ago? In some languages translations for vehicles that transport things are literally 'landships' Juggernauts come from the Indian word for war machines, largely big charriots that convey troops and weapons or as weapons, they are also used to convey effegies of Gods on festivals... it may be that ships also entered the psyche from some long forgoten root Philby'

Posted By Chas For the purposes of PUWER the term 'ship' has the same meaning as that assigned to it by section 313(1) of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. Does anyone have a copy to hand.

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith Chas, Try, http://www.opsi.gov.uk/A.../Ukpga_19950021_en_1.htm Worth going to sleep on!

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith Wikipedia describes a ship as: large, sea-going watercraft. A ship usually has sufficient size to carry its own boats, such as lifeboats, dinghies, or runabouts. A rule of thumb saying (though it doesn't always apply) goes: "a boat can fit on a ship, but a ship can't fit on a boat". Consequently submarines are referred to as "boats", because early submarines were small enough to be carried aboard a ship in transit to distant waters. I hope this does help ease some of the confusion!

Posted By Philby' Glyn, a navigation is also a stretch of navigable water, as in the 'aire and calder' navigation Philby'