Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,

Regular contributors to this forum may wish to comment on this statement by the BBC, found today on Yahoo! 'A spokesman for the BBC, however, said: "All BBC programmes, including Top Gear, take health and safety extremely seriously."'

I'm not looking for comments on Richard Hammonds crash, as this was a serious personal calamity for him and his family, and I wish him well,

John

Posted By Kesp
speed kills !

Posted By Philby'
"All BBC programmes, including Top Gear, take health and safety extremely seriously."

Having an ideal vantage point from the office....

it is, therefore, interesting to note that their outside broadcast vans are camped outside the LGI, on the pavement forcing literally thousands of students, from the two universities, hospital staff and visitors and the rest of joe public onto the road....which, being in the centre of leeds, is not exactly underused.

Not that the other two TV companies are any better, they're parked alongside the beeb!

Oh and it seems that the media are exempt from parking tickets also.

Philby'

Posted By Philby'
Merv,

working for the Local Authority here I have been surely tempted to tell the wardens....its just....I've got this strange voice in my head and an uneasy feeling that I may be being just be being vindictive, and I cannot rationalise it!

I ahve, at various times been involved with the media at different levels and in difering media...generally they descend like locusts, do exactly what they want and depart....having said that, we got fed and watered, their safety guy was helpful and very reasonable and occaisionally you meet some realy nice folk...if you discount the emerdale cast!

Oh well, publish and be damned, I'll tell the next warden I see

Philby'

Posted By Chris Hall
An HSE spokesman said on Friday its officers were focussing on the events that led-up to the incident -- the planning for the dragster dash, the risk assessment undertaken and whether Hammond received any special training with jet-powered cars.

"We will look at the film footage, but at the moment we are concentrating on what activity took place prior to the accident," he said.

Police have taken the Vampire jet-car away for forensic examination and have been looking at the state of the track. Media reports have said a burst tyre may have caused the crash.

The BBC in a statement said it was co-operating with the investigations. It could face possible prosecution if the HSE finds proper safety precautions were not taken.


Comments??

Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,

What I find most interesting is that the populist approach taken by prominent members of the show is apparently at odds with the statement from the BBC. Do we have a cavalier attitude in reality; or is the gung-ho attitude only really a cover for a very cautious approach, in fact the type of anal attention to detail and analysis of risk that is so often ridiculed in the popular media?

John

Posted By Kieran J Duignan
John

You have phrased the ultimate dilemma of safety management well:

'What I find most interesting is that the populist approach taken by prominent members of the show is apparently at odds with the statement from the BBC.'

AS you know, 'risk assessment' relies on estimates of the probabilities of injury/illness from particular hazards. Outside socially-designed 'high hazard' sectors like nuclear power, chemicals, petro-chemicals and mass transport, it's left to 'ordinary chartered' professionals to apply their knowledge and integrity to calculate these estimates. In the entertainment world, where the ego of 'stars' is a central ingredient of the work process, negotiation about the probabilities of injury differs from professionals like you and me, functioning at a distance in quite different organsiational cultures.

That doesn't necessarily imply that 'we' (whoever that includes and excludes)have 'a cavalier attitude in reality' that is 'only really a cover for a very cautious approach' but that the estimates of probabily were erroneous, and may be corrected in the light of the feedback available from the random experiment conducted in the Top Gear activity.

They have the choice to learn from this feedback or to pursue what you characterise as 'the type of anal attention to detail and analysis of risk that is so often ridiculed in the popular media', others call 'irresponsible' and I'm inclined to regard as 'wilfully ignorant and culpably uneducated':-).

Quite seriously, if you would you like to write jointly a courteous letter to Jeremy Clarkson, I'm up for it. Are you?

Posted By Rob T
well what can I say - I worked as a safety advisor, senior safety advisor and H&S manager at the BBC for 8 years until 2004 and I must say that they are some of the most dedicated and competent people I have come accross in the safety profession. The BBC do not take safety lightly and i'll guarantee that if Top gear was made in-house the paperwork will be more than adequate for any court case!

I do wish that some people on here would get away from the Risk Averse attitude though. No-one (other than some people on here) has ever said that you can't take a risk, only that you should make that risk as low as possible. What some of you don't seem to realise is that you can still work with a high risk if there is a valid reason for it.

I would be happy to work on that show and from what I have seen so far I would still have sanctioned the stunt. I may have put one or two other criteria in I might not - with safety there are always goint to be differences of opinion.

On a final note to those of you who think that this stunt shouldn't have taken place - maybe you should just watch the Waltons or CBBC. You obviously don't think that special effects etc should be allowed in the entertainment industry.

Posted By sagalout
Well said Rob, I agree risk aversion is nothing to do with positive H&S and perhaps that is actually what some Top Gear team members are saying in their own way.
There is nothing that says we shouldn't push the boundaries. Those that actually do push the boundaries are the ones who fully assess the risks in the most professional way available to them.(and that includes the risk of failure and possible legal actions)
If we want to be seen as professionals, we should be able to clearly see the difference between experimental activity and every day work.

Posted By Tony Brunskill
Well said Rob. Can I just make the point that Jeremy Clarkson digs at H&S because its within his job parameters to do so. He is a Journalist. It is within the remit of the press in my view to put up these types of challenge, either tongue in cheek or seriously. How many of us have agreed with the stupidity of "Bonkers Conkers". We cannot have our cake and eat it. If we are going to eliminate risk from the world of entertainment, the entertainment world just got very boring.
It is the Safety Professionals remit to mitigate the foreseeable risks and make the systems as safe as possible. Not stop every risky activity and crow "I told you so" when things do not go as planned.
Good luck Hampster, and Clarkson, and May and the rest of the Top Gear Team.

Posted By Kieran J Duignan

The tenor of the forum actually resonates with your view.

Difficulties lie in how one interprets the probability of high risk and how actions and statements are misinterpreted.

In point of fact, neither I nor anybody else has in any way suggested sending an email to Jeremy Clarkson saying 'I told you so'.

As the rules of this forum prescribe criticism of an individual, I don't know a way of indicating here how one might try to legitimately get across to him at this juncture the balance to be managed in health and safety matters.

Posted By Advanced Safety
sorry, had not made a complaint

Posted By jonr
Regardless of the health and safety issues involved here, I wonder if Clarkson will continue to denegrate the health and safety professionals in his usual way. He must be aware that but for the risk assessment and the resultant precautions including the attendance of rescue personnel, this would probably have been a fatal accident. Perhaps he should be more aware of his influence on viewers' attitudes

Posted By Stupendous Man
Given that I previously started a thread that was deleted as it asked exactly the same question as posed by jonr, I think it is about time that this thread was laid to rest...

Posted By Tony Brunskill
Tabs,

I think you are spot on with your post. How can we get wives and kids into safety induction training? I think I might explore that idea further.

Regards

Tony